Neel Dhingra (@neelhome) is a mortgage industry expert with over 15 years of experience in the field. He has served in various leadership roles in some of the most reputed companies in the mortgage industry. Dhingra is not just known for his professional acumen in mortgage banking, but also for his passion for personal development, content creation, and education. Neel also runs a successful YouTube channel where he regularly posts educational content and advice on the mortgage industry, financial fitness, and personal development.If you want to transform your business and life with expert strategies and next-level thinking, sign up for his live event: Forward Event 2023
What Travis and Neel discussed:
Why despite coming from a conservative immigrant family that advocated traditional career paths, Neil was drawn into the mortgage finance industry. He navigated significant challenges such as the 2008 financial crash, but through resilience and strategic pivots, he and his brother built a successful business.
How Neel began utilizing social media in 2018 as a means of marketing, learning from figures like Gary Vaynerchuk about the importance of content creation, focusing on the idea of building a personal brand and online presence.
The significance of reaching the right audience, rather than simply going for large numbers. This approach has guided Neel’s content strategy and helped him connect with the individuals who are most likely to resonate with his message and engage with his brand.
Why being relatable and authentic is an essential asset in entrepreneurship and why consistently showing your audience your progress, growth, and proven results can build trust and engagement.
Why Neel believes that networking and making new contacts is the most beneficial aspect of attending such events. Neel also shares his strategies to create collaboration opportunities
Don't miss out on our latest podcast episode! Today, we're featuring the journey of Neel Dhingra, the entrepreneur turned content creator. Neel shares his experiences, the tricks of his trade, and the secrets behind his successful shift from traditional business to digital platforms. He also spills the beans on creating high-impact short-form video content that skyrockets your presence on platforms like Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube Shorts.This episode is a goldmine for anyone looking to enhance their personal brand, optimize their social media game, or simply learn from the best. Don’t forget to subscribe to our Youtube Channel, @travismakesfriendsFollow Travis on:IG 👉🏻 instagram.com/travischappellFB 👉🏻 facebook.com/traviscchappellTwitter 👉🏻 twitter.com/traviscchappellPinterest 👉🏻 pinterest.com/travischappellpod Subscribe to Travis Makes Friends on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and don’t forget to leave a 5-star rating!
Transcript
Neel Dhingra (0s):
And everything in businesses, you're not entitled to shit. Yeah. Nobody owes you fucking views. Right? They don't owe you their business like, oh, so-and-so's winning and I'm not, well fuck. Maybe learn from them, like, what are they doing differently? Maybe it's not fair, but somebody hooked them up. Yeah. Okay. Well, how do you get your hookup? What value could you provide to people so that you could get that shortcut too?
Travis Chappell (22s):
Welcome back to the show. I'm Travis Chappell and I believe that if you can connect with the best, you can become the best. So after creating 800 podcast episodes about building your network, I've come to realize that networking is really just making friends for doing it the right way. Anyway, join me as I make friends with world class athletes like Shaquille O'Neal, entertainers like Rob Dyrdeck, authors like Dr. Nicole Lap, former presidents like Vicente Fox, or even the occasional F B I, hostage, negotiator, billionaire, real estate mogul, or polarizing political figures. So if you want to make more friends that help you become a better version of yourself, and subscribe to the show and keep on listening cuz this is Travis makes friends. What's up guys? Welcome to the episode of Travis Makes Friends podcast. Today I have a friend of mine, Neel Dhingra in studio.
Travis Chappell (1m 5s):
Neel comes from the mortgage space. He's got decades of experience selling mortgages on cold calls, which is something that we talk about. And then he started using that money to start investing into real estate, residential and commercial and all that good stuff. And then a few years ago, got into building his personal brand after watching a little bit of Gary V, which, you know, who didn't, although, you know, some people started and then stopped. Well he started and just kept going with it. And now his audience organically. And I've gotten pretty good at this point of sniffing out like who has fake audiences, fake followers, fake engagement, fake likes and comments and all that other stuff, and who's doing it for real? And Neel is one of those guys that's doing it for real. He came and spoke at a mastermind that I'm a part of, I wanna say six, eight months ago.
Travis Chappell (1m 47s):
And whenever I hear somebody talk about social media, most of the time when they're saying stuff, it's like, that's been taught for the last, you know, three or four years. And some of it's outdated and it's just, there's nothing new under the sun, but sometimes it's just like super repetitive. But Neel came up and give a bunch of really great advice on how to create short form video content, specifically for your brand to blow up on Instagram and TikTok, YouTube shorts and all these other platforms. Cause everybody's optimizing for this short form video and actually learned some stuff from it. So after that talk we connected and he hit me up with some podcasting things and then I was asking him some questions on his short form content and we eventually schedules lined up and he made it in studio here today. So we talk a little bit about why he got into creating content to begin with, what he would recommend to young people who are trying to make more money.
Travis Chappell (2m 31s):
We talk about some different social media strategies that have been working for him. We talk about how he filled a thousand person live event completely organically without a dollar and paid advertising, which is pretty wild. Lots of things we talk about in this episode. I think it's gonna be really helpful for you. So without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Neel Ingra. What's going on everybody? Welcome back to their episode of the Travis Makes Friends podcast. Today I am sitting down and making friends with Neel Dinger. Neel, what's up dude? Thanks
Neel Dhingra (2m 57s):
For having me, man. Appreciate it.
Travis Chappell (2m 58s):
Of course. Welcome to the studio, the, you know, hacked together in home studio studio.
Neel Dhingra (3m 2s):
This is, this is nice man. I like what you did here
Travis Chappell (3m 3s):
The thing is, you can't tell that it's hacked together home studio on the camera. So, no,
Neel Dhingra (3m 7s):
I'm just, you think we're on like some
Travis Chappell (3m 10s):
Blue wire too? Yeah, blue
Neel Dhingra (3m 11s):
Wire part two. Yeah, exactly.
Travis Chappell (3m 13s):Well dude, I've been looking forward to doing this for a while. You spoke at, I think it was an Avengers event, which is a mastermind Yeah. That I'm in for real estate investors specifically. It's kind of like got grandfathered into that group from the a hundred million group that I was in. And a, a lot of times I'll see a lot of like same familiar faces in the crowd. Yeah. Cause I've been in that group since like 2019. So a lot of the people that I see come in and out, A lot of the speakers, I'll see them online, I know almost everybody Yeah. That they bring in before they bring them in or I've had them on my show or something. Yeah. And so when you came up, I was like, I have never heard of this guy. Wonder what his deal is. And then the thing that you were talking about was social media content, which is stuff that we do a lot of. Yeah. So I was very curious what the talk was going to be. And I've heard a lot of people talk on these types of things.
Travis Chappell (3m 54s):
But I wanted to bring you on the show because I liked the style of content that you were doing. I liked the, the metrics that you were posting. I liked how you tied them directly to like business results. It wasn't just, you know, vanity metrics and things that didn't matter. Yeah. So there was a lot of things about, about your talk that that again, I, I was learning from, which I'm not to say that I'm like the expert at this point, but I have been doing this for a while and it's hard sometimes, like, you know what I'm saying? Like you, you'll bring people in. They all say the same thing. Same thing. So it was refreshing to hear a new and fresh perspective on it, which I want to get into with you. But before we do that, the show's called Travis makes friends because it's my goal to share stories of people who chose an unconventional path in life so that the listener, the audience can kind of see, hey, maybe this path that I'm currently on isn't the best path for me and I wanna go do something different.
Travis Chappell (4m 38s):
So yeah, let's rewind the clock. 10 year old, 11 year old Neel. Yeah. Set the scene for me. Where were you in the world? You know, what was growing up like for Neel?
Neel Dhingra (4m 48s):
So, immigrant family, my parents from India, I was born here in the us. My brother, sister and I grew up in a, you know, that conservative family where your parents want you to be the best student, become a doctor, lawyer, you know how all that stuff goes. They're, you know, deep into higher education. So it was all about, you know, work hard, keep your head down, do all that stuff. I bring that up because I was recently at this event where this dude, my buddy Renee, he basically helps you come up with your thing, your, your message, your brand. And he goes back to like when you were a kid during this specific, the ages that you just said, by the way, which is kind of weird. He said anywhere between 10 and 12 during those years, something clicked with you either that you really, that it's like, is the thing that you wanted to have come out later in life or it was the exact opposite of that.
Neel Dhingra (5m 38s):
Meaning like it was something that you don't wanna do when you, and it kind of came. So for me, it wasn't anything wrong with my parents. Like they're great, it was awesome, but they always told me to just kind of like work hard, don't make a scene, keep your head down, get a good job. Do the
Travis Chappell (5m 51s):
Traditional path.
Neel Dhingra (5m 52s):
Do the traditional path, you know, save your money, all your money, don't waste money on anything. Save every nickel and then you'll someday be able to retire. Yeah. And you know, that was the path, right? The
Travis Chappell (6m 1s):
40, 40, 40 plan.
Neel Dhingra (6m 2s):Yeah. Yeah. And so like later in life found out that hey, you know, I'm like, I felt kind of like constrained by that, you know what I mean? So kind of just continued doing the normal path of that everyone's done, like school, all that stuff. And then So you ended
Travis Chappell (6m 15s):
Up going to college?
Neel Dhingra (6m 16s):
Yeah, I ended up going and then in two years in, I quit going to school because I got into finance, mortgage finance. Okay. And this was during the crazy days of like pre 2008. So it
Travis Chappell (6m 27s):
Was 2004, 2005. Yeah, exactly.
Neel Dhingra (6m 28s):
Timeframe. So just doing crazy shit. No respa,
Travis Chappell (6m 31s):
No,
Neel Dhingra (6m 31s):
No rules. Yeah. Like you get a pulses, you can buy a house..
Travis Chappell (6m 35s):
And people sell mortgages. Yes. You don't even have to get, well you had to get a real estate license. Right. You didn't, there was no MLM
Neel Dhingra (6m 40s):
This is the craziest shit. So back then you'll be freaking shocked. The process to get a mortgage license when I got licensed was a form, they didn't even have it digitized. It was a piece of paper and you mailed it with a check for $75 to Carson City. Bro, I'm not fucking kidding you. This is the, this is the process then. Then they added, you had to turn in your fingerprint cards, but I don't think they ever ran the cards. Yeah. So you would go to like get your fingerprint cards, like a police card type shit. Yeah, but I don't think they ever ran cuz I knew felons. Yeah. Who were doing mortgages, like honestly, you know, so famously. Yeah. So you would, you would get a piece of paper, a check for $75 made payable to the department of whatever on your fingerprint cards.
Neel Dhingra (7m 24s):
And you were now a licensed mortgage certified baby certified bro. So let's do this. We started doing mortgages, I was doing like regular loans at the bank and my brother was doing mortgage. He's like, you need to get over here. We're making a lot of money. So I started learning that. Your brother
Travis Chappell (7m 36s):
Older or younger? Older.
Neel Dhingra (7m 37s):
Okay. So he brought me into that. He was like, so
Travis Chappell (7m 38s):
He was already done with college? Yeah. He found this thing. Yeah. You were in college, I'm sure your parents were super stoked that your brother pulled you outta school.
Neel Dhingra (7m 45s):
Oh they're very, they're very excited about that. It was like a frat house bro. It was like, you know, just people make you ever see the boiler room? Oh yeah, totally. Boiler room vibes. Yep. Money, a lot of things I can't say. But anyways, like that all, all that shit happened. And then what happened was like everything collapsed, you know, 2008. So just full collapse. Yeah, we had about 40 people in an office. It was, everybody was just went on to different things, you know, and we, it was just me and my brother. We subleased our office out and we cook one room that was the size of this. So it was your studio office? Yeah. Oh, we had a whole company like a Morgan. So you
Travis Chappell (8m 16s):
Weren't even the one just, you weren't even just one of the guys hitting phones?
Neel Dhingra (8m 19s):
No, no. We were like running a division for a company. We had a partnership. Everything that company went under. So then we had to just go get our own license and do loans. So we kind of got through that period of oh eight to like 12, which was just bad.
Travis Chappell (8m 29s):
And it was it mostly just like u2? Yeah. What, why? What made you stay in it when everybody else was leaving?
Neel Dhingra (8m 34s):
So honestly I didn't know what to do. It was the only thing I knew. Yeah. And so there was ways to make money. It was like less people were buying homes, but there were still people out there like picking up houses on the cheap. There were still government programs to help people stay in their home that we had to help. There was like reverse mortgages for seniors. There was still ways to make money in the industry. It was just slow. So I just stuck with it cuz I, and
Travis Chappell (8m 54s):
You actually had to be qualified to buy a home. Yeah.
Neel Dhingra (8m 57s):
So it got very difficult
Travis Chappell (8m 58s):Stated income only. Yeah, totally. I can afford that. Okay, great. Here's a million dollar home.
Neel Dhingra (9m 2s):
Yeah, exactly. So we like, luckily I saved a few nickels like along the way so it wasn't like broke. It could survive. I remember a couple years we had like very little income, but you know, did okay. Okay.
Travis Chappell (9m 11s):
Was it like I told you so moment for your parents at all?
Neel Dhingra (9m 14s):
Yeah, for sure bro. Oh yeah. They were like, man, see this is all, this is what happens. Get rich quick scheme, you guys are all shysters. And then it took a while for like anybody in real estate and mortgage to like get credibility again. You people be like, dude, what do you do? I'll like, I don't wanna tell you. Like, you don't even say like
Travis Chappell (9m 29s):
Mortgage spike. You're,
Neel Dhingra (9m 31s):
You're the guy that you're
Travis Chappell (9m 32s):
The reason our economies and shambles. Yeah.
Neel Dhingra (9m 34s):
So it was just bad. But we got through that and then from 12 onwards just kept growing. Like kept getting bigger, bigger. And we made a, we did like a joint venture, did all these cool things in the industry. Bought a bunch of rentals and just kind of built my net worth and business. Just the old-fashioned way. Like no social media, shit, nothing like that. Just yeah, on the ground, making relationships, shaking hands, closing deals, hiring people, running a business. Yeah. And then I just kind of, I would say like got just burnt out of that whole industry. The hustle. Just the hustle. Like yeah. You know, just, you know, doing constant sales, cold calling leads, running a sales team, keeping them motivated. It's like, dude, what, what is a better way to do this?
Neel Dhingra (10m 14s):
Like, how do people do marketing? Cause that was all sales, no marketing. And so then I got into like social media, you know, watching Gary V. And hey, you gotta put out content. Well what the fuck? How do you do that? So then I started doing it just really bad at first and slowly found my way. You know? When,
Travis Chappell (10m 31s):
When did you start posting?
Neel Dhingra (10m 32s):
2018. So prior to that I didn't even have an account. Wow. I didn't, like all my family was on social media. I was like, I'm not signing up for that shit.
Travis Chappell (10m 38s):
So 2008 to 2018, you were just slinging mortgages, phones, sales rooms.
Neel Dhingra (10m 44s):
Yeah, we did mail, direct mail, bro. We did a lot of mail. I had that shit down to a science, like, you know, fake stamps on the letter so people would open 'em. We had a freaking hand writer. You know, just like all the shit, like I, I would all the little tricks. All the little tricks of the trade to get people to, so I knew like sales. Yeah. But as far as marketing goes,
Travis Chappell (11m 3s):
That's some, I mean that's some marketing stuff, right? Yeah. Mailers and stuff like that. That's true. Some psychology pieces that for work online, just like they work on, on mailers. Yeah. That's interest thing about Mark marketing and sales really is like the principles are the same. Yeah. The platforms change. Yeah. You know the, the method might might change, but the principle, you know, it's, it's human psychology. Yeah.
Neel Dhingra (11m 23s):
Like open rates, subject lines on emails. You know, how are we, what's crm? Are we using, how are we doing this? What's email deliverability? All that kind of shit. I was behind the scenes just like a nerd into that. But didn't have like a personal brand. Didn't have an online presence or any of that stuff.
Travis Chappell (11m 37s):
I'm curious, do you have anything off the top of your, off the top of your head that was like a story of closing somebody down or you're on the phone. Yeah. And it's like, it's seemingly impossible to get this person to close, but then you end up closing it. Do you have anything that's top your head like that?
Neel Dhingra (11m 51s):
Oh yeah. I'm sure that, I mean there's a lot of stories like that of, it's happened more now that I've gone into B2B stuff really happened more stuff back then. It was more of just like we didn't really have to hard close anybody, you know, on buying a house for a while. Like you just wanted it. So you know, you didn't really have to do much other than just be good at the process
Travis Chappell (12m 11s):
And build good relationships with the realtors.
Neel Dhingra (12m 13s):
Exactly. Right. So that was it. But I remember, you know, there's definitely times when like people didn't qualify for stuff and you had to like help them get comfortable with it.
Travis Chappell (12m 22s):
You gotta be the financial wizard almost on
Neel Dhingra (12m 24s):
The scenes. Yeah. And so that was a, there's been some difficult clients for sure. But yeah, we didn't really have the environment of like, you had to hard close this guy for big. It was more just like they wanted it and could you do
Travis Chappell (12m 34s):
It? Now we have to find the path.
Neel Dhingra (12m 35s):
Exactly. Yeah.
Travis Chappell (12m 36s):
I was having a conversation with somebody recently cuz we're just talking about like different career paths and stuff and I, I come from a background of, of sales. I did like six years, seven years of door-to-door sales on multiple different products and stuff like that. And I typically recommend for people who don't have a clear direction of like where they want to go in life. Yeah. Like just do something in sales. Like get yourself in front of people, talking to people. Get good at convincing people to buy something or persuading people to move toward a solution to the problem that they're experiencing. Yeah. Learn how to do that because that's going to spill into literally anything else that you want to do in life. Yeah. Including the things that you don't think it spills into. It spills into Yeah. You know, the ability to communicate and persuade people to do something.
Travis Chappell (13m 17s):
So I'm curious, like if somebody came to you and asked you, you know, obviously you spent over a decade Yeah. Doing that exact thing. What are some of the biggest lessons that you took away from just that discipline of cold dialing and Yeah. Phone sales.
Neel Dhingra (13m 37s):
Well it's like you have to do the work, you know what I mean? And a lot of people in that time period, it's just who's willing to do it consistently wins. You know what I mean? And so it's
Travis Chappell (13m 49s):
A lot of averages.
Neel Dhingra (13m 49s):
Yeah. And the other part is it's like attrition. Like people just quit along the way. People like, another thing I notice is how easy it is to beat your competitor by simply just doing things in a structured way. Meaning like when do you make your calls? How many calls do you make a week? Yeah. You know, what's your process? Do you even have a process? I mean so many people are in this just flying by the seat of their pants. And then you like years go by and you, you just ran in the same place. Yeah. So how many people out there, like you're working your ass off. You feel like you're running and you look back and you've gone nowhere.
Travis Chappell (14m 23s):
Yeah. That's the worst.
Neel Dhingra (14m 24s):
You've done nothing. Like
Travis Chappell (14m 25s):
Those are the people that are like, I have 16 years of experience and I'm like, no, no correction. You have one year of experience done 16 times in a row. Yes. You never did.
Neel Dhingra (14m 35s):You never
Travis Chappell (14m 35s):Moved to the
Neel Dhingra (14m 36s):Next step. Yeah. And so like the thing that I learned the most from that whole period was you can make a lot of money but you're building just cash but you're not building any business because you're on a treadmill. The second you stop running, your business stops, your money stops. You have no brand. Like you're as good as this month's pipeline. How many deals you got in the pipeline this month? None. Okay. You're worthless. Oh shit. What about that 10 years of edu? Oh fuck. It's not worth anything. Yeah. Because you don't have any deals right now. So what I was U unit as is like, hey, make some money, invest it properly. That's the only thing you could do. So I started buying real estate, which helped me build wealth. But like the actual business itself was not worth anything.
Neel Dhingra (15m 16s):And me personally, I had no brand. So that's why I was like, that's why I really, that's the first thing attracted me to marketing stuff was like, hey, like now I'm not just building an income. I'm actually building a brand, a business reputation. Yeah. That's worth something. Yeah. And what it's, what's it worth? Well it's worth a lot, you know, after you keep doing it for a while, like now you have relationships, you have, you know, different ways to get business. Yeah. You can attract business. You don't have to like chase people. You can attract people. It just makes like your life way better. Every like problem I had in life was solved by building a brand
Travis Chappell (15m 48s):And it's the difference between long-term and short-term. Yeah. Thinking for sure. Because especially if you don't come from money, you can get really wrapped up in some of those commission checks. Right. You're like, oh my gosh, I made $16,000 this month. Like that's, I I thought I would have to be an anesthesiologist to make that much money. Yeah. And I made it by sending a $75 check in the mail and jumping on some phone calls.
Neel Dhingra (16m 12s):Yeah. And but you know, it's so like up and down Right. And you know, you're not in control of that and that's rates go up and then you're out. Or you know, the markets appraisal
Travis Chappell (16m 20s):Doesn't come through.
Neel Dhingra (16m 21s):Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it's like there's some different things you could do to do it better, but at the end of the day you have to do something different. Yeah. Other than just building this month's or this week's sales.
Travis Chappell (16m 33s):That's what I tell people, if you're not in the long game, you're in the wrong game because you will always have to go out and go back and hunt. Yeah. You know, it's like the, it's like the insurance salesman that is at every Chamber of Commerce meeting and has been there for the last 25 years brings the donuts. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like, dude, when are you gonna be able to stop doing this activity? Yeah. You know that that's when it kind of hit me was when I was like showing up to these things and I was knocking on doors and I was doing everything I was supposed to do and I was just like, exactly what you're saying. Then you, you go on vacation for a week and a half and you come home and you're like, oh I'm not making any money. Yeah. Now I gotta go work twice as hard for the time that I took off to make up for the fact that I took some time off because
Neel Dhingra (17m 13s):I
Travis Chappell (17m 13s):Wasn't money while I was gone.
Neel Dhingra (17m 14s):You're on a treadmill, you
Travis Chappell (17m 15s):Gotta get back on the treadmill.
Neel Dhingra (17m 16s):Right, exactly. Yeah. And the other part that sucks is it's, you're just treated like a vendor. So you know, like you said, you're gone. Somebody else fills your spot.
Travis Chappell (17m 25s):Yeah. Right.
Neel Dhingra (17m 26s):And what are you bringing? Flyers, tchotchke, freaking donuts, bagels. I mean like what value is that somebody else can do exact thing. You're, they just got,
Travis Chappell (17m 35s):You're fully replaceable. They just got another beer cooi. You know what I mean?
Neel Dhingra (17m 38s):Exactly bro. So it's like what are you going to do different? So that's the part that I wanted to get off that hamster wheel. Yeah. And then I also saw that there was like there's gotta be a better way. And the other thing that got to me, and you probably felt this is probably why you do so much content and I'm sure a lot of people who watch and listen to your stuff feel this way. Like, do you ever feel like you're meant to do more than what you're doing?
Travis Chappell (17m 60s):Yeah, totally.
Neel Dhingra (18m 1s):You know, and so like I had that nagging feeling for like a decade. Hmm. Like dude, I'm more than just a loan officer. I'm more than just a sales dude or a freaking realtor or whatever you are. Like, you wanna do more, you wanna help more people, you wanna make a bigger impact, you wanna have a purpose. Yeah. And so I wasn't finding that in what I was doing. And I think like that's what kind of, I didn't know it at the time but that's what kind of drew me to like putting myself out there. Cuz now you do have a purpose. You are helping people, you're helping people that you don't even make money from but you're just making an impact and people are now better off because of what you did.
Travis Chappell (18m 33s):Were you comfortable making the first food videos that you made?
Neel Dhingra (18m 36s):No. Man, these are terrible bro. You gotta, I can't even show you. I was gonna
Travis Chappell (18m 39s):Say you still have 'em or
Neel Dhingra (18m 41s):We have some, we lost some but there's some, I think I have like a lot of the stuff from 18 bad cringeworthy. Yeah. You know, it's bad. You can't even watch your own video. Yeah. You know, you can't even get through it. How do you expect other people to get through it? Can't
Travis Chappell (18m 52s):You? You didn't do anything prior to that I'm assuming Like no other form of nothing
Neel Dhingra (18m 55s):Content or, I mean I speaking right. I, dude I was terrified to speak. Could not speak in front of people. I was the best man for my brother's wedding. Literally looked down at my phone and read the speech cuz I was so like scared to speak in front of a group. So anyway, could not speak, could not do video. But just started and just got through that really awkward phase. Totally. And then it just kind of got better. I started doing meetups, like small events for like local people in my industry. Okay. Mortgage professionals, real estate professionals. Real estate professionals. And then also do for like consumers. Okay. I would've like five 10 people come and just test, just try. You know? And some of these were horrible as well. Yep. But that's how I learned, you know, so that was like my tuition. Most of the things I did, 18 and 19 did not work.
Neel Dhingra (19m 37s):Like 95% did not work. They're a waste of time. But it wasn't a waste. That's how I, you know what I mean?
Travis Chappell (19m 42s):To stop Neel. That's it. It's not
Neel Dhingra (19m 44s):Working. That's true. But what I found was like the small amount that did work was so cool. Yeah. And got me so much further than the stuff before that I was like man, that's like a glimpse. It's like just a little bit of that. Oh dude. I'm like, you get handed an opportunity that used to take you years Yeah. From one video. And what's cool about that is it's, you realize it's not really about being an influencer or views or the metrics you, you just like, it sounds cheesy but you just need one. Correct. Yes. You need to connect with somebody on that video. You
Travis Chappell (20m 13s):Build the relationship to have an relationship with one individual who's watching. That's it. And that's all that matters. Yeah. Yeah. It was actually, I think it was at that same event cuz obviously we've been creating content for a long period of time and I've told people this, I don't know how many times, but I loved the way that Pace Morby said it when he said my core job is to create pace clones. Yeah. And when he said it that way, it was just like a what a like perfect succinct way to say it where it's like me and you are talking right now, but somebody right now is watching a video of you and somebody else is watching a video of me talk to them about something completely different than, than what you and I are talking about right now. Yeah. It's like when you really start wrapping your mind around how powerful that can be and how it could be everywhere.
Travis Chappell (20m 56s):Yeah. Like somebody could be watching you on TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, reading an email. Yeah. Listening to a podcast. Somebody could be doing all of those things right now as you and I are having a conversation. Yeah. They're building a relationship with you and then probably DMing you to do business with you that you're gonna have to respond to once we get off of this podcast.
Neel Dhingra (21m 18s):Yeah. Like while you're sleeping. Yeah. While you're doing this, you know, so it's just duplicating yourself. Correct. And it's a simple thing but so many people don't do it. It's
Travis Chappell (21m 27s):Your best business development rep.
Neel Dhingra (21m 28s):That's it man, you hired the best person. You know? Yeah. Right. Like it's like you, you're doing it, you close people like nobody else, well just duplicate yourself. So that part I think is where once you see the benefits of that, even if it's just small, you're like man, okay, I'm onto something here and then you stick with it.
Travis Chappell (21m 44s):When did you start really like investing into the content strategy?
Neel Dhingra (21m 47s):So I started really in the beginning cuz I had, like you just said, I wasn't like a creator. Yeah. I was like a guy who had entrepreneur
Travis Chappell (21m 54s):Turned creator, not creator turned entrepreneur.
Neel Dhingra (21m 55s):Exactly. So a little bit of success in business, you know, could deploy some capital. So I was like, okay I can buy, I can hire someone to help me with some videos, I could make 'em look good, I could, you know, buy some equipment, that kind of thing. So I started doing that but I quickly realized you can invest in all the video and equipment, all that. If you don't communicate well, you're not gonna go anywhere. Yeah. I mean you're like the dude who bought the most expensive tennis care that sucks. You know, like all that kind of shit. So it's like you got $300
Travis Chappell (22m 23s):Basketball shoes. Yeah. But you dunno how to dribble.
Neel Dhingra (22m 25s):Yeah, exactly. So that was me. I had the be like I bought the cameras, most of 'em just sitting around don't even know how to operate 'em properly. Eric's trying to teach me stuff but it's just, you know, I'm not getting anywhere with this. Yeah. So what I found was gotta teach people what you really know. Like could you become a better educator on better communicator, more confidence on camera, all the stuff that just comes with the reps. And so I just started doing more of that and then figuring out what works. Cuz you saw, you know, the platform's always changing. That's why when you mentioned like somebody will come up and say the same old thing, sometimes the same old thing isn't what even works doesn't
Travis Chappell (22m 58s):Even work anymore. Right. Well
Neel Dhingra (22m 59s):You're telling a strategy from two years ago, right. And or six months ago that doesn't even work today. So things are moving that quickly. So you gotta be like a real student of the game. And for me, I'm a nerd. I love treating this like a video game. You know, like dude, how do we hack attention? Sure, sure. What's the algorithm change that you can hack in there to get more reach? Yeah. It's the same thing going back to like direct mail. What's the freaking font on the envelopes that results in more opens. That's the same type of shit. Like, I'm like, okay, what hooks do we use? And I've seen you talk about this, like how did you go viral on YouTube shorts, this type of look, this type of video. And then what's the purpose of all this? Not to get the any metric, it's to get more free reach out of these platforms.
Neel Dhingra (23m 39s):I call it like my tent. I'm trying to bring more people into the tent. Yeah. So that way I could make a bigger impact, find my people. So I'm like creating content for the masses so I have the opportunity to reach the few Yes. That could move the needle for my business. Yeah. And I could move the needle for them. We could do business together, help each other. So that's been my thing is like, hey this is, it's kind of fun when you think about it. Yeah. What are the things that would work? What doesn't work? All that kind of stuff. How
Travis Chappell (24m 3s):Do you think of being polarizing in your content when you're in, because you're in kind of like professional services space. Yeah. Right? You're in real estate, you're in investing. Yeah. You know, you can't really, I mean you can do whatever you want, but it's typically, you know, frowned upon to be maybe, I don't know, verbose or silly or Yeah. Talking about whatever, religion, politics, extremely polarizing topics. But you still kind of want to exactly what you were just kind of re referring to earlier. You still want to, you still wanna get your message out to a mass amount of people so that you can find the people that really like you. Yeah. And repel the people who don't like you. Yes. It has to do both of those things. I, in my opinion, right, good marketing repels it attracts the ideal person as much as it repels the non-ideal person.
Neel Dhingra (24m 47s):Yeah. So I found it's in two categories. The content you create that would, you know, have a lot of reach. And then there's also other content you create that speaks to your people, your tribe. Right. And both can work. You know, not every piece of content has to do at all, but one piece of content you can make with a specific goal of just bringing more people into 10 more wide appeal and you're trying to reach the most amount of people. Another piece of content, what's
Travis Chappell (25m 9s):A, what's an example of
Neel Dhingra (25m 10s):That before? So that would be like teaching a topic, taking a niche topic and giving it broad appeal. So a niche topic could be this new loan program that helps you buy a house. Okay. Right. And it's called X, Y, Z program. Most people in the industry will just tell you about this new program and they'll give you the acronym and they'll tell you, nobody gives a shit about that. They care about how it helps them. Right. So you come up with a hook, like here's a simple tool that helps you buy home even if you don't have the best credit or you know, I'm just giving you basic example. Sure. Right. But that would be
Travis Chappell (25m 34s):Get your house with no money down or
Neel Dhingra (25m 36s):Yeah. That would appeal to people, not just who are in the transaction or in that window who might need you, but like they would save it, they would share it with a family friend. Like it would have more appeal. And so you're giving them real tricks. Hacks. I think everybody's interested. I they'd benefit, this is just a benefit I had of like getting on social in 18 and just like following all these people. You could have access to some people who, you know, have huge brands today. Like people like Gary V for example. I remember seeing an Instagram story and he was like, man, I just came out with my latest case with sneaker. If you buy X number of them you can come hang out with me in my office. I was like, holy shit.
Travis Chappell (26m 12s):Yeah,
Neel Dhingra (26m 13s):I'll fucking buy that. You know, it's like $5,000 worth of K Swiss, which I donated to a kid's school cause I didn't want him. Right. And then I got to go hang out his office and I was in, that was the first time I met him in, in like 2018 or 19. And I was like, Gary, I'm in the mortgage industry, super boring. What kind of content can I create? He's like financial fitness people love the trips, the tricks, the hacks. Hmm. It doesn't like why is Cindy, what's her name? Orman. Suzy Orman. Oh yeah. Freaking, what's the old dude who's super rich? The freaking guy. Dave Ramsey. That's Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like these guys give out the financial Yes. Hacks. Right? It's a big thing. Like people wanna get their money, right? They wanna learn about what do you know about investing and and mortgage and real estate.
Neel Dhingra (26m 53s):Like put those tips out there. Yeah. And the, and present 'em in the right way. That's your ticket. Don't just talk about like the latest program. So that type of content everybody's interested in, I think that can bring more people in your 10. It's not polarizing at all. Sure. But you deliver it in your way, it's your style. Sure. So like my style is different than your style, which is different than somebody else. So I think people can eventually tell this dude's for real. So your delivery style and then the other type of content I found that works really well to get business and speak to your people is two ways. One way is proving competence. So what can you post that would prove you're competent? Success stories, client reviews, testimonials, your take on the news.
Neel Dhingra (27m 35s):What's a industry practice that you stand against? Hmm. Dude, I hate that the people in my industry do this. Yeah. That's kind of polarizing, but at the same time it separates you from all your competitors. Yeah. Right. The industry takes a standardized approach. My team and I, we go deeper with each person to kind of custom solution. Yeah. So in this world of tech and push button get house and all that type of shit, it's not like that we do this. So now you've separated yourself. Right? So that's a way to prove competence. You know, like all these questions you can talk about on social that would just show you, you know, your shit. Take a news article and apply it to the consumer. Like Dr. Make it simple that shows like, dude, you know your stuff, you're on top of it. That to me has generated the most amount of business.
Neel Dhingra (28m 15s):And then the second part is like what you just said, how do you like repel the people that you don't wanna work in and attract your tribe? That's where you just show more of your personal life for me. Yeah. Like what are the things I'm into? What are the music I'm, what am I doing with my family? Yeah. Like what do you want people to know about you? And so when I started incorporating that, and a lot of people don't want to because they're like, dude, I don't want people to know this one thing about me that's cheesy or like that's weird. But I just say it like this Dude, if you, what are the things your friends and your family like love the most about you? Like what if you showed that on social, what are the odds that some other people might like that shit too? Yup. They might find your weird sense of humor, funny. Or they might find the fact that you like this cool.
Travis Chappell (28m 55s):It's the fear of the people that are gonna hate it is why they won't put it out.
Neel Dhingra (29m 0s):But those people just hit the unfall button. Right. So like for me, I'll have a piece of conduit about you get a bunch of new followers, then lose followers. As I start posting stories, I literally see it go down. Yeah. They're leaving. I'm like, fuck, you know you're leaving. Don't leave. Yeah. You don't know. But they just leave because they didn't like, they like, dude, they're like, your story popped up and it was you, I don't know, doing whatever. Yeah. And you're like, dude, I don't wanna follow this guy and the un cool. Right? Like just let it, it's just a process. Like bring him in and then keep the ones that wanna be there. The other ones leave lose
Travis Chappell (29m 28s):Sight of the fact that social, like content in general is there to build relationships and trust with people. Yeah.
Neel Dhingra (29m 33s):And at the end it's conversations. At the end
Travis Chappell (29m 35s):Of the day, you're always gonna have a better relationship and have more trust with somebody with whom you share common interests or Yeah. You have certain commonalities with whether it's your sense of humor or a show that you're watching on Netflix or the restaurant that you like to go to, or the type of beer that you drink or not drinking at all or Yeah. You know what I mean? Like whatever that thing is, there's quirks that all of us have about how we choose to live life, our personalities, everything about that. And it's really easy to get scared about the negative feedback that you're going to get and let that hold you down from the potential future positive feedback. Yeah. Because the negative feedback in my experience has always come first before the positive feed. Like anytime I'm doing something that's not generic, that's not like, you know, that's just more interesting or, or it's, or it's maybe a little bit edgy or it's showing a part of my sense of humor that maybe not everybody likes.
Travis Chappell (30m 26s):Yeah. The negative feedback comes first because the algorithms searching for the people that are gonna like that. Yeah. You know what I mean? So you have to kind of deal with some of the negativity in the meantime until it attracts more members of your tribe and until those other people finally just fuck off and go Yeah. Follow somebody else's stuff. You know what's
Neel Dhingra (30m 44s):What I mean? It's huge. Yeah. It's like, it's kind of divisive. Yeah. Like if people don't, you want it to have a little bit of a debate so there's people posting content trying to be polarizing. Like it's, you shouldn't be trying that hard. Like you should just be showing. Right. And maybe people don't vibe with it or maybe they disagree with what you're saying. That's a healthy debate. That's cool. But like I don't have to try, it's just like share more of what you really think. Yeah. Like what's your thoughts on this topic? Share them honestly. Right. If that is kind of polarizing, that's cool. But I think when people try to do it then it's like yeah, you absolutely, you're just like attention hungry. Yeah.
Travis Chappell (31m 15s):I've had some friends who've like, who've tried to be polarizing and then it inevitably takes them down this path of like, of political polarity. Yeah. And then they get sucked into these either right wing or left wing vortexes and then lose track of their entire mission. They're like sacrificing their long-term brand for short-term views. Yeah. You know, it's like, well I'm, but it's, it's working, it's getting a lot of views. It's like well that's not always the metric to decide whether or not it's working. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like you should also be thinking about, is this the type of stuff that I wanna be known for? Do? Yeah. I want this to be a part of my brand. Do I really want my most watched videos to be a strong stance on fill in the blank on this big political topic or this religious debate?
Travis Chappell (31m 58s):It's like, do I really like, especially if you're in
Neel Dhingra (31m 60s):Marketing or you're in finance, like Right.
Travis Chappell (32m 2s):You're not trying to sell a book on religion then maybe like yeah. Ease back a little bit. You know, like let your personality come through. But, or or just make sure that you're asking yourself the question, I guess is my point. Yeah. Of like, yeah that video may have ha gotten more views than this video, but does that mean that we should go create a bunch more content like this video? Cuz ultimately I don't want to be the next Ben Shapiro. Yeah. You know what I mean? I still want to be a, a real estate expert. I still wanna be looked at as a, you know, entrepreneurial figure. Yeah. I don't want to be this political talking head or like a pastor of a church or the next Richard Dawkins. You know what I mean? Yeah. So like, you know, sometimes it's okay to let those things shine through, but yeah.
Travis Chappell (32m 43s):Always, you know, have some clarity around where am I headed
Neel Dhingra (32m 46s):With this? And I like the fact that, you know, you talk about hey you gotta put out content that you know, teaches your expertise you can help people with. But then at the same time it's not like, so you're looking at your niche, what do you wanna teach? What's the best way to do that? The most, you know, the most innovative way, the best way to keep attention with that. That's cool. But you're not like going into a topic just for the sake of views. Yes, correct. You know, that's where I think it goes wrong because now like you're just playing a game of like, you know, whatever, it just doesn't serve you long term and then it just like the audience isn't gonna be quality. So I've noticed a lot of people have audiences, some are worth more than others. So for me the best part has been building a real community.
Neel Dhingra (33m 26s):Yeah. Like what's a community of people? And I look at like the algorithms and they keep getting worse in certain parts better in a certain like short form content, you have ability to go viral for free. That's cool. That didn't exist a couple years ago. That's a cool thing. But other than that, the algorithm's always worse. When I post an Instagram story, it shows it to fewer of my followers. When I post a regular picture of me and my family, it shows it to fewer of my people. So like you're reaching less and less people over time. And so like in that thing of like you're posting and you're not reaching as many people, how do you get people off that into an actual community? Email is great. Sign up, you know, opt in, come to in-person events. That's why like I love doing in-person events.
Neel Dhingra (34m 7s):Like get the relationship off of Instagram into like another platform.
Travis Chappell (34m 11s):Is that why you started your event? I know you have, you have forward coming up in Vegas July 14th, 15th, 16th. Yeah,
Neel Dhingra (34m 17s):Just 14th, 15th. 14th,
Travis Chappell (34m 18s):15th. Okay. In Vegas July 14th, 15th at Resorts World 2023. Got a great lineup of speakers. Is the reason you got into events to build community or was there another catalyst?
Neel Dhingra (34m 29s):Yeah, it was a to build to to have a place to meet up with people and like-minded people who all have the similar goal and wanna meet each other, help each other. And then also, I had been to so many events and I was like, you you ever go to a business and you're like dude, I could do this better. And then I actually did that. I was like, I'm gonna make my thing better than the standard thing. Yeah. So I was like, there's the standard formula for a conference in my industry. I wanna blow that out of the water. Yeah. Make mine different and stand out. So you think about this, this is a cool topic actually that would help a lot of people. I was listening to this podcast the other day and people were talking about some big brands that have been developed in the last five, 10 years. And they were very like they weren't new or that innovative.
Neel Dhingra (35m 9s):It wasn't some new thing that they invented. They found an existing category and blew up within that. So for example, you ever go to the shop, the freaking grocery store and you look in the vitamins section and there's these vitamins Oli.
Travis Chappell (35m 23s):Yep.
Neel Dhingra (35m 23s):They have really cool, cool branding. I bought that shit too. And you know why you bought it cuz it freaking looked cool and they look like candies and
Travis Chappell (35m 31s):They're Yeah, I was gonna say cuz they're gummies and I'm a child in my
Neel Dhingra (35m 33s):Heart, so Yeah, exactly. I like Sour Patch kids bro. I
Travis Chappell (35m 36s):Don't wanna swallow a multivitamin before I go to bed. Yeah. I wanna chew a gummy cherry or
Neel Dhingra (35m 39s):Whatever and they're freaking good. Yeah. And your kids will eat 'em and they're probably got all the shit in 'em that you need. Maybe some stuff you don't eat. I don't know. Probably. Yeah. But the thing is they took over and they blew up. Yeah. Why stale category, innovative branding. Yeah. So mortgage stale is, fuck yeah. Innovative brand wins real estate, same thing. Conferences, they're terrible. Most of 'em. 90% boring couple keynote speakers, the rest of the day's filler or it's a pitch fest and you're just being sold to all day, like stale category for sure. So I want to innovate within that category and all of a sudden you stand out. So with forward in three years, we've blown up like not to, I'm not anywhere close to where I wanna be, but we've had like probably a decade worth of progress in two years just by being super innovative.
Neel Dhingra (36m 25s):Yeah. Within a steel category. So anybody who's listening, you think about categories like it's, you can find more and more examples of this. Yeah. Clip
Travis Chappell (36m 33s):Did that with toothbrushes. Yeah. And toothpaste.
Neel Dhingra (36m 36s):Same
Travis Chappell (36m 36s):Shit. Yeah. What's the a manscaped? Yeah. With Clippers. You know, like if you, if you bought the first version of Manscaped Clippers, they were shit. Yeah. Like all they did, literally all they did the brand was buy cheap Clippers from China, slap Manscape on the brand and then had fantastic branding and marketing. Yes. And then their second and third products were actually like innovated by them with a product team and they're really good. Yeah. But they became,
Neel Dhingra (37m 4s):That was brand mvp. That was like their right. Proof of concept. Absolutely. People will buy this shit. Okay, now we need actually make it
Travis Chappell (37m 10s):Marketing and branding. Yeah. Yeah. And then they actually followed it up with a good product.
Neel Dhingra (37m 14s):Yeah. So for me now in a world where it's noisy, there's a lot of people trying to make money, trying to do marketing, trying to do videos, trying to, how do you stand out? Well you could be yourself authentic. That's innovative. And then just up the quality. Like this is good quality shit you got going on here. Yeah. I'm sure you guys take some time to make sure that we can be clearly heard. We have a Yeah mic, we have clear video. Like stand out. That
Travis Chappell (37m 36s):Was the whole reason for dinner party. Yeah. The episodes that we were filming was is that exact thing we just, we kept working with with some of our coaching clients Yeah. On, on their shows. Because you know, I just get sick of like the whole thing where everybody's just like, yeah, I have a podcast. But their podcast is like their redheaded stepchild. It's like we have it and we post content there. Yeah. But it's always half-assed. It's just willy-nilly, let's turn on the camera. I got a couple ideas in my brain, let's just spitball it and see how it goes. Yeah. And then they wonder why it doesn't grow and then they talk shit about the platform. You know what I mean? It's like, well you're just not, you're not treating it properly. Yeah. So dinner party is just kind of, kind of like, it's gonna be an experiment for the next, you know, year, year and a half. Because you know, it's expensive to create one of those episodes.
Travis Chappell (38m 16s):It was time consuming to create one of those episodes. It's difficult to schedule all the guests on a certain day when you have that many busy people. And then to have to clear by the venue to get the gear rentals, to have the staff show up to like it was a whole thing. Yeah. It was like a production. So we'll probably do like one every six to eight weeks or something like that. But it was an experiment just to be like, what if we gave it our absolute best shot at quality? Yeah. To do something that nobody else in our space is even thinking about doing. Cuz everybody's just doing the same played out stuff. Yeah. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but it's largely based on the personality behind the mic, not based on the production value of the actual event. So yeah, it's a, it's an experiment for us, but it's largely based on exactly what you just said.
Travis Chappell (38m 59s):Like how can we create something that's kind of the same but also completely different and innovative in much higher quality.
Neel Dhingra (39m 7s):Yeah. I mean that's what the first thing I saw about it. Like, I don't even know what it's about, but I was like, man, this is well done. Yeah. I can see the quality. So if somebody took it that serious, maybe it is good. Yeah. Right. Like you give it so you're really just trying to buy a few more seconds from somebody so that way they have the opportunity to learn how fun it was or what values there. So don't like shoot yourself in the foot by doing it half-assed. Right. And then now you're blaming the fact that there's no reach. Yeah. Well like, bro, would you watch your own stuff if you wouldn't watch That's Yeah. Would you watch this? Honestly? Yeah. And like ask somebody their honest opinion get, that's the cool thing about like being in this in in the entrepreneur's category of like masterminds and these things. Like you can ask people for honest feedback and they'll give it to you.
Neel Dhingra (39m 49s):They'll be like, dude, great job here. But honestly here you need, you need to level up and yeah, this was weak and
Travis Chappell (39m 55s):Then, and the food sucked. Yeah. Or the speakers weren't that great.
Neel Dhingra (39m 58s):Yeah. Gimme your feedback. Or like when you do your content, you know what? You lost me there, it drags. I'm just being real like this doesn't work. Right. And then you'd be like, oh shit, thank you. I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna fix that. Or you give a talk, where did I lose you guys? Where were you bored? And then now you know that you need to tweak that like watch, like, it's like sports bro. People will watch film, they get better. Take those who take it seriously, win those who don't lose and don't even get a chance to play. Yep. Like treat this the same way.
Travis Chappell (40m 24s):Yeah. People forget that you have direct competitors, like your direct circle of competitors in your, especially when it comes to creating new content or putting on an event or whatever. Yeah. But the product that you're selling with your content is attention.
Neel Dhingra (40m 39s):Yeah.
Travis Chappell (40m 40s):So you have a lot more to worry about than your direct competitors. It's like, well I'm doing better than so-and-so does who's also a whatever, a mortgage professional or real estate expert or whatever. And it's like, but you don't have to beat just so-and-so because every second this person's watching you is a second that they could be watching Joe Rogan.
Neel Dhingra (40m 58s):Yeah.
Travis Chappell (40m 59s):Or Ben Shapiro or Antic Esperan or Grant Cardone or name anybody else who's creating content online. Yeah. And that's just talking about YouTube and podcasts. We haven't even touched on Netflix. Amazon Prime. Yeah. Apple TV plus Hulu. Like there is no shortage of people that are trying to gain and retain attention. You are not just competing with so and so-and-so who sells mortgages at the office down the street. You are competing with Apple TV with an unlimited budget of billions of dollars that they're plugging into these brand new, new programs and programming and television and content after content after content. And your ass is just like throwing up a camera with a shitty mic and nothing and just like, let me talk about mortgages for four minutes.
Travis Chappell (41m 45s):And then it doesn't go viral. And they're like, oh, I'm shadow banned. You know? And it's like, oh, maybe you just suck a little bit. Yeah. And that's okay because we all sucked for a while. Hundred percent. But don't just let yourself suck. Do something now that makes you better. Like learn from that. Watch the game film to your point. Yeah. And do better next time around
Neel Dhingra (42m 7s):Time. And the other part is there's one thing going for you that those big people don't have and those companies have. And that's the relatability factor. Absolutely. That's the fact that if you did it, I can do it. It's that, you know, I'm one step ahead of you. I'm not 50 steps ahead of you, I'm not a celebrity, I'm just like you. Yep. And I've done it. So follow along so I can show you
Travis Chappell (42m 27s):Three years ago. Yeah.
Neel Dhingra (42m 27s):That power like that zero to hero is a is a huge thing. Yeah. In marketing, your personal story is your biggest piece of marketing. Yeah. And so if you're selling or promoting anything and you've done it yourself, or if you haven't done it yourself, if at least you've helped others do it. Like your clients, here's the clients I take from A to B and I keep showing that over and over. Yes. You're not freaking Apple or Netflix, but you've got something they don't have. You know, you've got that relatability and you're like on the ground level with these people. So if you up your quality now you can actually compete. Yeah. Cuz you've got something, you got a leg up on these people that they don't have. Exactly. Like Zillow and all these big companies, they don't have a dude on the ground in Vegas helping people.
Travis Chappell (43m 8s):Yep. You know, you just gotta increase your effort. Yeah. And understand that like people's attention can go to literally anywhere. Yeah. So you gotta give 'em a reason to be with you.
Neel Dhingra (43m 18s):Other thing that you brought up too, which is just true in, in everything in businesses, you're not entitled to shit. Yeah. Nobody owes you fucking views. Right. They don't owe you their business like, oh so-and-so's winning and I'm not, well fuck. Maybe learn from them. Like what are they doing differently? Maybe it's not fair, but they, somebody hooked them up. Yeah. Okay, well how do you get your hookup? Like exactly what, what can, what value could you provide to people so that you could get that shortcut too. It's a tough
Travis Chappell (43m 43s):Pill to swallow sometimes cuz there's been recent, recently where I've gone to people who I kind of initially wrote off when they first entered the space Yeah. That I've kind of had to swallow my ego and go like, you know what, whatever they're doing is working. Yeah. And sometimes it's difficult to swallow your ego and Yeah. And admit that you need some help, but that like we all do. And to your point earlier, the algorithms, everything about what we do is changing constantly. Yeah. So if you're not committed to the process of learning and growing, there's always gonna be somebody coming up behind you that will be Yeah. You know, they got that chip on their shoulders still. They got that ambition that's like pushing them and driving them to figure it out. And then you just got a little too comfortable and that's when you have what we were talking about earlier, which is the speaker who gets up and talks about these awesome social media strategies that aren't even applicable anymore because
Neel Dhingra (44m 30s):They're not work
Travis Chappell (44m 31s):For you two and a half years ago when you were in the game and now you're not, but you're still known for it. So you still teach the old shit cuz you don't really know what's working now. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then you get all, you know, your ego gets hurt and you get really fragile and you won't, you're not willing to go listen to anybody that's coming up and, and you know, it's like, well they've only been doing it for two years and I've been doing it for eight years. It's like, yeah, but if it's working, it's working. Yeah. That's the beautiful thing about it. That's actually the awesome thing about it is like the market decides whether it's good a hundred percent. You know, there's, there's not a lot of preferential treatment, you
Neel Dhingra (45m 2s):Know what I mean? Yeah. And then you can get better at certain things. Like I didn't care about Twitter or writing. Hmm. And then it started getting, doing that in the last couple years and then slowly got better at that. And that's just the skill of like copywriting. Like how do you get a huge thought into just a few lines? Yeah. And have it impact people. No video, no shit. Like nothing. All you have is your words on a screen. And so yeah. There's things you could, for me, I'm just like a student, I just wanna learn more. Yeah. So I'm always trying to think like, what could I do to get better at this? I want, I like, the one thing I wanna do is when I do teach something or present something, I want it to have already been tested proof, like I said earlier, like nothing sells like results. Nobody's gonna listen if it, if you don't sh prove that it works.
Neel Dhingra (45m 43s):So when I, you said something about like you show actual business results, that's, I start with that because then people will pay attention cuz they're not gonna just watch. I mean they're not like, it'd be cool to think everyone's gonna like like you for you, but everyone's selfish. They wanna know what's in it for them. So if you're like, Hey guys, I know you're trying to grow your business. Here's something I did to grow mine. Here's proof it works and let me teach you how like I found that formula works with even a crowd of people that don't know who the fuck you are. Yeah. You know, you can, the results will speak for themselves
Travis Chappell (46m 11s):And that's why people continue to follow you. Yeah. Is cuz they want something that you have done or you some result that you have. Yeah. We've put out a few videos recently about why Alex sha Mozzi blew up and you know, and there's so many video people that are analyzing the text and the copy and this and that and just like, well I have a theory. It could be because he wrote a viral book in the middle of exiting his company for like 57 million maybe that's it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that that might have something to do with it. He
Neel Dhingra (46m 40s):Showed his podcast going back long time. Yes.
Travis Chappell (46m 43s):Six, seven years
Neel Dhingra (46m 43s):Ago. And so he's been doing it a while and also he's
Travis Chappell (46m 46s):Gotten good at creating Yeah. Valuable content and has the proof to back it
Neel Dhingra (46m 50s):Up and he's freaking smart. Yeah. Like you looked at the, he just made a post recently and it shows his whole career. He is like, I turned, it was on his birthday. I think I saw that one. Yeah. And it like documented, dude went to freaking school, graduated magna cum Lae from, yeah, Vanderbilt Plus he did this, then he worked this, then he did this, then he did this and he's got like the track record of success. Like I remember seeing him at an event, me and Eric were in an event with Brad Bradley's office and this was like 2019 and Hermo spoke there. He didn't even look the same as what he looks like now. He was a really, if I'm being honest, it was like a bad presentation. But the knowledge in there was like, dude, this guy's a freaking genius. Yeah. He just was, it was not presented in the right way.
Neel Dhingra (47m 31s):So he was going over a spreadsheet and all these Facebook ads, analytics and all these things and everybody was lost. But I was like, man, this guy is like, there's a reason he's here. Yeah. And then years later I was like, oh shit. Same thing but packaged differently. Yeah. So that's another cool point of like, hey, whatever you're teaching, you gotta package it in a certain way. Just, I've seen a lot of people who are really, that's a skill by itself. Yeah. Like they're really good at what they do. Super rich, successful but terrible at teaching it. And so you get better. Obviously he's a perfect example. He got super good at teaching it. Yeah. Just communicating through reps.
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Travis Chappell (50m 53s):So you were entrepreneur turn creator, we have a lot of people listen to the show that are in that boat. We also have a lot of people listen to the show that are creators and they're trying to learn how to make money online. So like they have a podcast or they have a YouTube channel or they're doing reels or clips or something to try to, to try to get out of their nine to five and start making money online. Yeah. What would your advice be to somebody like that who, like, they're not making six figures, they're not in sales, they're not in any aspect of business. They work a job and they're trying to create some sort of a living around a topic or something that they care about and they're just, they're not able to monetize. What, what would your advice be
Neel Dhingra (51m 26s):To them? So I would say this, find people who are in the entrepreneur business space who need help with X. So if you reached out to people like you and me or anybody in business, what are the things you need help with? Like, and then you, you made an offer around that. You know what I mean? So like, maybe they need help with like a lot of people do social media marketing, you know, video content creation. It could be something with ads. Yeah. Could be something with YouTube. It could be a niche within a niche. For example, there was a guy who I found recently who's really good at setting up YouTube ads. So not even like paid media in general, just specific to just YouTube and Google AdWords. He knows that the ins and outs and he'll have you have a way better ad spend and get results from your YouTube ad.
Neel Dhingra (52m 10s):Guaranteed. Here's the proof, proof, proof. Okay. So how do you get to be that person is he just tried, like he did it probably for free for somebody first to learn, offered it and then got better and better at it. So I would say this, you gotta have a skill. Yeah. Like the skill can't be that you make content on its own. Like that's a commodity. Every, anybody could hire someone to make content. It's a, it's like I make content that gets X. So I don't just create content, I make content that gets you more clients. Yeah. Here's my success story, my success story, my success story. And start
Travis Chappell (52m 43s):With one specific thing. Yeah. Like I write tweets that convert.
Neel Dhingra (52m 46s):Yes.
Travis Chappell (52m 47s):Or I make short form content from your long form content. Yeah.
Neel Dhingra (52m 51s):It's one, it's a niche. Yeah. And I'm really fucking good at it. So the idea then you can make money.
Travis Chappell (52m 56s):Yeah. So the idea is start a business essentially.
Neel Dhingra (52m 59s):Yeah. Like what's a acquire skill if you don't have, if you have a skill, monetize a skill. Sure. Teach people how to do it or help people and charge a fee for that. Cool. If you don't have a skill, get a skill. Get a skill. Yeah. You need a skill. Like are you gonna stand out? So maybe your skill is you freaking you're a G and xl, I don't know. Fuck you just, you know that shit and you have a little mini course on it. Yeah. And you provide consulting. Yeah. And then you work your way up from there. And honestly the skill could be video editing, content creation. There's niches in there too. And
Travis Chappell (53m 28s):Probably is that if you're, if you're a creator, you know what I mean? And you just, you can't figure out how to make more than 300 bucks a month from these random sponsors or affiliate deals that you're getting and you're just like banging your head against a wall. Cause you hate your job,
Neel Dhingra (53m 39s):But you wanna
Travis Chappell (53m 39s):Offer that service to somebody else.
Neel Dhingra (53m 40s):Yeah. And it could be copywriting. I would say that videos that actually get results would be the best way. So then you just go deep on like, why is this person winning? What is the way they wrote it? What was the way they delivered it? What's the tonality they used? Yeah. Get into all that shit. Just become a student and then learn it, practice it, execute it, and then do it for people for free or for low money so you can get the results. So I would reach out to someone like you and be like, dude, I'm really good at finding the best clip that can do X for your business. You don't even have to pay me, but can I Or just do it for you. Yeah. Be like, Hey, I've already done that. I took your last episode, I did this and I gave it to you.
Travis Chappell (54m 18s):We, we had a guy sent us a cold dm, I think we, I think we sent him a couple clips to, to edit because he came at, he came at us like that. We thought people like, I'm sure you get a ton of dms from people like this who are like, I'll cut up your content, I'll cut up your content. But it's mostly, you know, offers to buy their stuff. Well this one guy came in was like, I'll do it for free and you only have to pay me if it gets over a hundred thousand views. Oh sure. And I was like, okay.
Neel Dhingra (54m 41s):Yeah. Deal. Like
Travis Chappell (54m 42s):That's free as long as I know you're not buying fake views on some random bot site. Yeah. Then like you have yourself a deal. That's a good offer. You know what I mean? That's good. But I'm, I, even if we didn't send 'em stuff, I have no doubt that that kid will turn that into a six figure business within 12 months if he keeps sending that offer to
Neel Dhingra (55m 0s):People.
Travis Chappell (55m 1s):Oh yeah. You know what I mean? Because
Neel Dhingra (55m 2s):It's like, it's a guarantee. Yeah. It's like an offer that you can't refuse. Right. So because
Travis Chappell (55m 7s):It's not, I don't want more clips. Yeah. I want more views. I want impressions. Yeah.
Neel Dhingra (55m 13s):So
Travis Chappell (55m 13s):You're, so you're selling me the result
Neel Dhingra (55m 14s):Reverse engineering. Yes. So what do you need help with? What's the one thing you need more than anything? Oh, I need this. Yeah, I can help with that. People
Travis Chappell (55m 20s):Think they need clips in reality. They need impressions, you know what I mean? It's like, so clips provide impressions a lot of times, but sometimes if your clips suck, they don't provide impressions like your social might look okay. But if all of them get 212 views because they're cut up by a VA in the Philippines and no shade to anybody that does that. I'm just saying like a lot of times they're, a lot of those types of working relationships is just that they're just workhorses and they, they just cut up a bunch of clips and cut up a bunch of clips and it's like, well that's not the metric of success. Yeah. It's gotta have a good hook. The clip has to be well chosen. It can't just be a clip for the sake of having a clip. It's gotta stand on alone without context. It's gotta have the ability to go viral. It's gotta have a good hook or three that we can test.
Travis Chappell (56m 1s):You know what I mean? Like he did a good job, like you said, reverse engineering the goal, which is not more clips, the goal is more impressions. Yeah. And then said, if I can do this for you, I'll do it for free and you only pay me if the result that you want is actually achieved. And I was like, okay, sure. Yeah. Here's a couple videos, see what you can do. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Neel Dhingra (56m 19s):And that's the part of like, maybe it's a niche within the niche of content creation. I help you get more conversions. Hmm. I help you use Instagram stories to get this. Yeah. And so getting just like, so anybody who's listening, trying to get a, you gotta get good at something and then monetize that. And if you're already blessed and good at something, just monetize that thing and then now it just becomes about what's the right way to package it. Sure. And build that business.
Travis Chappell (56m 43s):So in 2018 you started creating content. Yep. At this point you have 140,000 followers on Instagram.
Neel Dhingra (56m 50s):Yeah. Something
Travis Chappell (56m 51s):Like that. You got, you're putting out content everywhere you're omnipresent. Yep. At what point, from 2018 to 2023, did you really start seeing an increase in like viewers, impressions, followers, everything going on? Was there a, was there a particular, you know, 90 day timeframe? Or has this just been like slowly gradually increasing from day one?
Neel Dhingra (57m 12s):So I would say this the first account I made on Instagram, you know, I started like, I'm trying to like buy time, you know how we're on entrepreneurs. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna hire someone, help me with this. Hired some company. They were gonna help me with X, Y, Z. Turns out ruined my account. So I had to like shut it down, start a brand new one. I think I did that in 19. I started my current Instagram account from scratch and, and just built it from just ground up and just building a community. Right. And so trying to get more people to watch the videos. And in the beginning it was really slow. And then what I found was as Instagram reels started taking off, you know, a couple of my pieces of content went like semi vial. And that brings a lot more people in and then a lot more shares and saves. And then what you're doing in real life helps you too, because you speak at a micro event, it's only 50 people or whatever.
Neel Dhingra (57m 58s):But if like 40 of the 50 end up following you and sharing all your videos, if those people have like 200 person audiences, now you're introducing to all them. So you can kind of like build it really from the ground up. Yeah. And then what's cool is like the numbers look cool, but in reality it doesn't mean shit because you need an actual, like what of those people, how many people are you like actually watching your stuff, sharing your stuff, engaging with you. And that's like a fraction of the total number. So it's cool to get these big numbers, but it, you know, like I'm more focused on the actual results. Yeah. The
Travis Chappell (58m 31s):True fans like Kevin Kelly calls.
Neel Dhingra (58m 33s):Exactly. And that's the, that's what really moves the needle. That's the people who are flying across the country to come meet, you know, hang out and do all these good things. So that part's cool. I'm just trying to now focus on other platforms too, obviously. But I think the one, the reason why I got so focused on Instagram was because of the fact that they're falling behind of TikTok. So they're pushing short form more. You know, now it's getting more difficult, but it's still really possible to get a lot of reach with without any ad spend. What's cool is also the DM feature that doesn't exist on TikTok. Really. Like my DM on TikTok is all spam bullshit. Yeah. I don't get anything there. It doesn't even exist at all on YouTube. So that's specific to Instagram. And the other part I like is Instagram has the right demographic for my business, which is millennials, affluent millennials are there, there's a lot of broke people on social media.
Neel Dhingra (59m 20s):But then, you know, there's a lot of people with means that are there too. So it's like the perfect demographic for a lot of businesses. Is that millennial with money? Yeah.
Travis Chappell (59m 29s):What is the primary thing that you are teaching or converting people into now?
Neel Dhingra (59m 33s):So I have my, you know, business, my, my core business, which is like real estate mortgage stuff. But then my education company, which is forward, we help people create within those industries, real estate, mortgage, insurance, financial services, any of those people, client service business, we help you with your personal brand. Okay. Creating content that gets results and staying on top of how the things are changing. So we have a group that's our like entry level group where you can join, learn about how to do all this stuff. And then also we have like calls every other week where, because things are constantly changing. Yeah. What we were talking about six months ago is what we're, is different than today. Even two weeks from now or two months from now, something new's gonna come out and we're gonna be on top of it.
Neel Dhingra (1h 0m 14s):Yeah. You know, so that's, that's a cool group to join. And then we have events throughout the year. We have a mastermind like the highest level, which is like a mastermind of people who are, you know, just crushing it that want to be there and, and network and all that stuff. So just different tiers basically. Yeah.
Travis Chappell (1h 0m 28s):Are you now, in your personal life, do you, are you focused mostly on building your personal brand with your daily activities? Or are you still kind of operating your businesses? What does your daily
Neel Dhingra (1h 0m 37s):Schedule look like? Yeah, I just, I'm doing the business stuff and then I just, just be intentional about showing more of what I'm doing. Okay. Because I've found that that is the, the best way to grow my business is to grow my personal brand. Yeah. So for me, like people f like they love to see you build in public. So I got people that, you know, see, I tell them, Hey, I'm doing this. It may not work, I might fail, but here's what I'm working on. Sure. Or here I put half a million dollars of my own money into this event. It might be the worst investment ever, but here's what I'm doing, here's why I'm doing it. Yeah. And here's what we're doing. And then show people all the steps. And you're just like doing it in public. And what happens there is, I think people like buy into the whole journey. Totally. And they see it and then they trust you more and relate to your thing. And it, it's cool cause it empowers people.
Neel Dhingra (1h 1m 19s):Like you get so many messages of people like, dude, I've been thinking about leaving my nine to five and starting something and, and you gave me the courage to do that and that's cool to see too.
Travis Chappell (1h 1m 27s):So forward. Where can people go get tickets even if they're, if they're even, you know, still available. Cause I know you guys are pretty close to
Neel Dhingra (1h 1m 32s):Some Yeah. We're just in that last group. You can go to forward event.com and there's tickets there and that's gonna be in Vegas. I'd love to have people there. That's gonna be awesome. And
Travis Chappell (1h 1m 40s):You have some pretty sweet speakers lined up for that, right? Like
Neel Dhingra (1h 1m 43s):Yeah, we have like Ed Mullet, Sean, Ken's gonna be there talking about you the latest in YouTube strategy. Sweet. This guy Chris Doe, who is a branding phenom, this guy's like one of the best teachers I've ever found in marketing. He also has a YouTube channel with millions of subscribers. The future, he
Travis Chappell (1h 1m 58s):Did some advertising for our show actually earlier
Neel Dhingra (1h 1m 60s):This year. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So Chris is a great guy. He's gonna be dare teaching, you know, New York Times bestselling authors, subject matter experts, people that you may not even know, but they're just great at teaching you something. Yeah. And then the audiences, which is cool, is separate from the speakers, what you learn from stage, you know, this networking is huge. The dude's sitting two seats down from you might have a bigger impact on your business than the guy on stage. Right. So connecting with like-minded people asking how you could help them so they could help you. All that kind of stuff.
Travis Chappell (1h 2m 28s):The number one reason to go to any event, man. Yeah, for sure. Like I always tell people like, if you leave an event with seven pages of notes and no new contacts, you fucked up,
Neel Dhingra (1h 2m 37s):Failed.
Travis Chappell (1h 2m 37s):You know, like you should leave an event with one to three practical things that you can implement into your business from the information that you learn from speakers, from stages, all this other stuff, one to three, anything more than that, it's gonna take way too. The implementation timeline is so far out that you're never gonna take action on any of it. Yeah. Get one to three things and spend the majority of the rest of your time focused on meeting the people sitting next to you on being at the networking events. Stay up late, you know, like get some caffeine in the morning to wake you up. I don't know what to tell you, but like the reason to be there, squeeze it is for the people that are around you. Yeah. You know, those are gonna be the people that you're gonna be throwing events with in six years from now. Once you leave your nine to five and realize the next stage of your dreams, those are gonna be people that you invite to speak at your event because you, you were both on the come up together and you remembered the first time you met at this one event, seven, you know what I'm saying?
Travis Chappell (1h 3m 29s):Like, you, you get the co like we're, we're spitting content right now. You can listen to Neel's content on his podcast. You can listen to my content on my podcast. You can listen to Ed my Let's podcast. You can read his book. Not to say that you shouldn't pay attention to speakers because they're awesome to watch in person. Yeah. However, like I said, if it's not one of your primary goals to leave having met a bunch of other really cool people, then you're,
Neel Dhingra (1h 3m 51s):Yeah. And the, and the simple way to, and just kind of wrapping that whole part up, the simple way to do that is just walk up to people, introduce yourself. They're there to meet people too. So don't feel weird about that. Even if you're an introvert. Cuz I'm super introverted. I don't, I'm not out like I'm not into that. But you just talk to people, ask 'em what's, you know, what's going, what, where they're from, what's the business like? And then also ask them like, what are you struggling with? Because everyone will tell you they're crushing it and all the good things. Nobody tells you the bad stuff. Of course. So if you ask somebody, hey, like, what's one thing you're struggling with dude? And you're like, man, that's a weird question, but honestly my CRM sucks. Or honestly I'm having a hard time on social. And then you're like, I can help there. Yeah. You know, like, actually dude, I know somebody.
Neel Dhingra (1h 4m 30s):Either I can or I know
Travis Chappell (1h 4m 32s):Somebody say, or I just met this guy
Neel Dhingra (1h 4m 34s):Who does that. Exactly. And you could just be the connector. So
Travis Chappell (1h 4m 36s):People, there's a high value in being the connector man.
Neel Dhingra (1h 4m 38s):Huge. Just being like, dude, I know someone that can help you. Yeah. Let me get your number and then I'll text you after when we get back. And then, dude, dude, the one thing that nobody does follow, follow up. How many times you meet somebody, let's gonna jump on a zoom. Let's do the podcast. Yeah. Like we connected on text. Yeah. And then both of us like have the same thing of like, we follow up. So I remember I followed up, you followed up and then now we're here doing the thing. Yeah. How many times that doesn't happen? Like 98%, 99% of the time. It never, everything everybody says never happens. Just a complete waste of you're just freaking masturbating each other. Yeah. Nobody does anything exactly. That they say they're going to do. So I found like you, I I always think about this quote, you'd be surprised how easy it is to beat your competitor if you just try.
Neel Dhingra (1h 5m 18s):All you have to do is freaking follow through. Yeah. Sent. So I love starting a text thread and then going, so not going back to the business cards that you left in your back pocket that your wife threw in the freaking washer, ditch 'em, fuck all that. Yep. Just text people. And then now go back to your text threads from that weekend and just follow up. It's already open, it's open line commission. Just you can follow up, send a link the coly link to book the call, book the podcast, jump on a thing, whatever. Absolutely. And you win
Travis Chappell (1h 5m 47s):Forward event.com. Yes sir. Last question I'll ask you and I'll let you go. How did you sell tickets to the event? Were you doing paid marketing or is it all organic through your socials? What was the
Neel Dhingra (1h 5m 56s):This this is cool. I I wanted to try this. It's accomplishment for me is I wanted to sell a thousand tickets to my event without one single ad. Wow. And we just, we were about to do that. And so not one ad just Yeah, thank you bro. That's huge. Just people sharing it and me doing a good job last year. So people come back and they tell all each friends and also building a community so I can email my list Yeah. And let them know. And the, this is the thing I did seriously this year that I didn't do last year. So I'll tell you the first, whenever you're doing something, you gotta do the shit that no one's willing to do. So the way I filled the room last year is I literally personally sent dms to people and personally inviting. So I'd be like voice memo. Yeah. Not a fucking Philippines va spamming people.
Neel Dhingra (1h 6m 39s):I personally would
Travis Chappell (1h 6m 40s):Not many Chad, no,
Neel Dhingra (1h 6m 41s):Fuck all that. It's like I dmd you. I said, Hey Travis, dude, we don't know each other yet, but we have a shared connection. Dan Fleshman, whatever. But anyways, dude, I'm doing a sick event in, in Vegas on this thing. Would love for you to be there. It's gonna be dope. Yeah. Blah, blah, blah. And I personally did that like 10 every night, 20 every night hours every day inviting people and then learning like, where are people's roadblocks? Why aren't they coming? What, yeah, what what gets people to take action versus not And then delivering on the promise. So what I found was if you make a promise, like if I promised you this is gonna be dope. Yeah. It better fucking be dope, you know, because if you come there it is sucks ass. I'm gonna be like, you're never gonna freaking believe me,
Travis Chappell (1h 7m 18s):You're back on the treadmill for next year. Yeah.
Neel Dhingra (1h 7m 20s):You gotta do
Travis Chappell (1h 7m 21s):A bunch of dms again. We
Neel Dhingra (1h 7m 22s):Have to deliver. Yeah. So I'm like, I remember delivering and then at the end of the event, everyone's so stoked and happy getting testimonials and I was already thinking this event was to now help me next year and hopefully I don't have to send thousands of dms next year. So when we launched this year, we sold like half the tickets to the event on the launch. Good for you dude. So that was cool. And then that gave me the momentum and then people share it sounds like a
Travis Chappell (1h 7m 45s):Lot of work, Neel. I don't know.
Neel Dhingra (1h 7m 46s):Yeah, yeah, man, it's a, the no, everyone's like, dude, this is sick. You did this event, launched a mastermind. I'm like, well, yeah dude, you didn't see all the shit ones the 14 person one that nobody
Travis Chappell (1h 7m 57s):The beat up you did, and two that nobody
Neel Dhingra (1h 7m 58s):Showed up to 13 and the I sucked out, or the first
Travis Chappell (1h 8m 1s):Domino's pizza, a two liter bottle mountain
Neel Dhingra (1h 8m 3s):Deal. The first four we did during Covid where, you know, I lost multiple thousands, tens of thousands of dollars and it was hard as hell to get people to come to. And then the next one where I lost a hundred thousand dollars on. So yeah, I might make money, but it took a long time to get there, to get
Travis Chappell (1h 8m 20s):Punched in the face a lot along the way. Yeah.
Neel Dhingra (1h 8m 22s):And then you have to be doing a really good job to win, right? So people like wanna launch this program or that program, like, you know, you gotta, you gotta put in the work
Travis Chappell (1h 8m 29s):For those listening are watching man selling a thousand seats to an event, a live in-person where you gotta book a flight and you gotta get a, a hotel. It's a hard thing to, so a thousand tickets to event is hard to do in general, but it's, it's almost impossible without paid advertising in some way. So congrats to you and all the success, man. You really deserve, you putting in the work. And I see all the stuff you're putting out. We've been learning a lot from the stuff that you've, that that you've been sharing. So I appreciate you coming on the show. Thanks for taking the time and I'm sure we'll be doing some more stuff in the
Neel Dhingra (1h 8m 54s):Future. Thanks bro. Yes sir.
Travis Chappell (1h 8m 56s):That's it for today's episode. Thanks for spending some time with me and my friends. If you want to be better friends with me, then head over to Travis Chappell.com/team to subscribe to my free newsletter, your friend Travis, where I share what's on my mind about life, building a business, raising kids, being married, and anything else I would normally share with my close circle of friends. That's Travis Chappell.com/team. And my biggest ask of you, since I'm sharing my friends with you, is to share this episode with a friend of yours that hasn't listened to the show yet. And leave us a quick five star rating in Apple Podcast and in Spotify it would mean the world to us as it helps us make sure that this show continues to be more valuable to you. Thanks in advance and I'll catch you on the next episode.