[00:00:00] Bryan Callen: I was desperate to see if I could distinguish myself. I was desperate. I was desperate to see if I could be as unique as I felt. I just didn't want to be ordinary.  
[00:00:13]  
[00:00:13] Travis Chappell: Today I'm making friends with Bryan Callen. If you hate laughing, then you will hate today's guest. Bryan Callen is one of my all-time favorite people in the comedy space at the moment.
[00:00:23] Whether you know him from his roles in movies like The Hangover or Old School, his frequent appearances on the Joe Rogan experience, or his own podcast, the Fighter and the Kid with Brennan Shab, or even the Bryan Callen show. This episode will show you a side of Bryan that you probably are not familiar with. More about being a dad, more about how to overcome struggle in life and why it's important to put yourself through struggle.
[00:00:46] We talked about so many things that I've been eager to ask him, that he normally does not get into. If you are a fan of comedy, if you're a fan of Bryan Callen and a fan of overall improving yourself, which I'm sure you are, you wouldn't be listening to this show, then please enjoy this conversation that I was able to have with Bryan Callen,  
[00:01:02] Travis Chappell: What's going on everybody welcome back to another episode of Travis Makes Friends. Today I'm making friends with the one and only Bryan Callen. Bryan what's up? Welcome to the show.  
[00:01:10] Bryan Callen: It's good to be here and it's good to be your friend. I look forward to working on our friendship over the next hour, there's nothing I enjoy more than create an intimacy with another man in a sky blue shirt with that kind of a beard and a barrel chest.
[00:01:22] Travis Chappell: I knew that was the type of person that, that you are.
[00:01:24] Bryan Callen: You damn right Friendship's interesting, isn't it? It's like, I was thinking about that. I think you connect, men connect on two different ways and then they connect one in how much they laugh with each other.
[00:01:34] You know, that's a bonding experience, but also probably you connect when you're doing something difficult together. War, totally. Military shit. Yeah. You know, being on a, the struggle, same team. The struggle, the, the shit work. Yeah. You know, when you're somewhere you don't want to be, but you're suffering together.
[00:01:52] That shit creates a bond.  
[00:01:53] Travis Chappell: Yeah. It was two, three months ago. I'm basically, at this point, fully recovered. A couple friends of mine, and I did a 38 mile run, from midnight to 9:00 AM took me almost nine hours. And that's exactly what happened. But what are you talking about is like that?
[00:02:09] Well, why did we do this? You know what? Who got us into this fuckery to begin with? And I was not very well trained for it. as you can tell, I'm a fairly bulky person. I was, I didn't have any business doing long distance. My toenail just fell off.  
[00:02:21] Bryan Callen: Nobody has any, nobody has any business running 38 miles , like 26 miles.
[00:02:25] Life it's too short to run. 26. Hey, let's tack on another 12. Anybody wanna run another 12? Was 26 not enough?
[00:02:33] Travis Chappell: Answer was no. And the answer was yes was enough.
[00:02:35] Bryan Callen: The story of the marathon was he dies at the end. He ran 26 pounds and tell him the Spartans were coming or whoever, and he fucking died.
[00:02:43] You wanna do another 12?  
[00:02:45] Travis Chappell: For some reason, and specifically, that's what dudes do.
[00:02:48] Bryan Callen: I had a guy who, he was swam from Catalina Island to Santa Monica. Now Catalina Island is out. And just, just so you know, there are, that's where the big gray whites hang out. That's where the 22 footers hang out.
[00:03:01] That's where they're all just, you know, swimming around, eating sea lions, elephant seals, whatever the fuck they eat out there. And he swam. He started at 11:00 PM so he is like, I'm gonna swim at. And swam from 11:00 PM and got there at 7:00 AM and then he goes, would love to get you in the water with me sometime.
[00:03:19]  
[00:03:19] Bryan Callen: Hey bro. Hey bro. I'll be in the boat and it better be a big boat and I'll be in a, in a warm poncho with donuts and fucking cocoa going through and stuff like this. You got it. You got it. And if it's at night, I won't be, yeah, I'll be na. And I'll wake up at seven maybe with the sun.
[00:03:40] Groggy. Fucking get outta here. Get outta here with your long swim.  
[00:03:45] Travis Chappell: Oh dude, it's so funny, that men tend to be that way. I do want to go back in time and build a little bit of context before we jump into some other things here. You have a fascinating story and I didn't even know everything about it until I was doing a lot of prep work for this.
[00:03:58] I. And I was like, Jesus Christ, dude. How many countries have you lived in? Yeah. How many places have you been to? So for people who don't know, you were born in the Philippines. And I'm not even gonna try to piece the puzzle together from there. Can you take us back then?  
[00:04:10] Bryan Callen: Calcutta in India, then we moved to Bombay.
[00:04:14] Which is now Mumbai in India, and then Lebanon, and then Pakistan, then Lebanon again, and the war broke out. Even as a kid, I saw that country change under war. It was only six months. I saw we were gonna buy a house or move into a house, and we weren't, we weren't able to, you know, I just saw everything change, you know?
[00:04:33] Yeah. And then, we were evacuated to Greece  
[00:04:36] Travis Chappell: Just military family?
[00:04:37] Bryan Callen: Banking. I mean, you know, everybody said, oh, you dead work for the CIA who knows? Hey, listen, you keep waking up free every morning. He'll do what he does. All right?
[00:04:44] And then we moved from Greece to Saudi Arabia.
[00:04:47] Now my parents stayed in Saudi Arabia and then they were in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, different parts of the Middle East. And I, went to boarding school in Massachusetts, cuz you couldn't go to high school in Saudi Arabia. Back then it was foreigners couldn't go. Really? So school ended by eighth grade. Wow.
[00:05:00] So all of us had to be shipped off. Yeah. You had a choice between Switzerland or you know, or the United States. It was such an international school, so everybody just kind of, it was a diaspora. We would just, you know, So for me, saying hello and goodbye constantly Was chaos.
[00:05:14] And maybe even a little traumatic-
[00:05:15] Travis Chappell: So you went to MA Massachusetts when you were 14?  
[00:05:17] Bryan Callen: Yeah.  
[00:05:17] Travis Chappell: Was this the first time you were in the States?  
[00:05:19] Bryan Callen: Yes. I'd visited, but only like two weeks at a time.  
[00:05:21] Travis Chappell: But your parents were from the States or?  
[00:05:23] Bryan Callen: No, my parents were from the States.
[00:05:24] Travis Chappell: Okay, so you spoke English. It was still,  
[00:05:26] Bryan Callen: Yeah. English is my first language. Yeah. So I, I didn't know how to add, like, do little things like I'd never watched tv, like American tv. I didn't know much about sports. I never watched, I didn't have a team. Yeah. I didn't know how to address an envelope.
[00:05:38] Little weird shit like that. And when you're moved around constantly like that, even in the middle of the year, you miss chunks of your education. You really do  
[00:05:46] Travis Chappell: These knowledge gaps.  
[00:05:47] You don't take grammar. Like grammar. They forgot .  
[00:05:50] Bryan Callen: You don't know. There's just all kinds of shit that happens, man, and, and I think when you're a kid like me who suffered from a form of ADHD, you know, they didn't diagnose it back then.
[00:05:59] Travis Chappell: But certainly I think the stress and the lack of consist. Didn't help a kid with my brain. You know, and, but god bless, thank God cuz my compensation was to be funny I was gonna ask, is that, do you look kind of at that time in your life as like a neutral? Did it give you an advantage to give you a disadvantage?
[00:06:19] Bryan Callen: I think any, any kind of struggle if you are taught how to navigate it, if you have support from an adult. You can't throw a child into, you know, chaos without a real love and support parents. . Fathers and mother. Disaster. But I think, you know, I think it was Nche who said, for my children I wish nothing but loss and depravity because it's, it's only the blessed, you know, or so, you know, there there is that idea.
[00:06:46] Whatever you go through, you'll be thankful for it. And if you're not, you have to orchestrate your life so that you are thankful for it. But I certainly would never change it  
[00:06:53] Travis Chappell: The opposite of victimhood.  
[00:06:55] Bryan Callen: Yeah. But my sister was not that way. My sister lived that way, but she- did. it didn't affect her the same way it did me.
[00:07:00] I don't know why. Who knows? My sister is very stable, very kind of like feet on the ground and I was born with a, an imagination. And, you know, and so who knows what I would've been she be maybe, I don't know how much of it is nurture and how much of it is nature.  
[00:07:12] Travis Chappell: Sure. Yeah. That's kind of the question, right?
[00:07:13] It's like the psychology behind that where your sister basically goes the opposite way. Yeah. And just, and seeks the stability that she didn't. and then you just kind of embraced the chaos  
[00:07:23] Travis Chappell: and continued in it.  
[00:07:24] Bryan Callen: My father is, she's more like my father. My father could live in all those countries and never speak a word in the language, which is baffling to me.
[00:07:30] My mother would go there and immerse herself in the culture and learn the language. She speaks Arabic, French, Spanish, you know, the, these were the things Italian, she put herself in those. She spoke Urdu. she really worked at not only speaking the language, but making sure that, we as children were surrounded by the people of that country and ate that food.
[00:07:49] We didn't eat American food. Yeah. My mother was like, I'm gonna eat what the Pakistanis eat. I'm gonna eat what the Indians eat. I'm gonna eat what the Filipinos eat. I'm gonna eat what the Greeks eat. So, and my father, to his credit, understood the value of that.  
[00:08:00] Travis Chappell: Yeah. Was she working as well?
[00:08:02] Bryan Callen: No, she was just raising us.
[00:08:03] Travis Chappell: Okay. But dad was just kind of this elusive job career.  
[00:08:07] Bryan Callen: Always gone. Always gone. You know, gone. And then, but, but my father deserves credit because I knew he cared about me. Yeah. More than anything else. Yeah. That was always what was instilled. So even though he was gone, . And the irony is I'm gone a lot too.
[00:08:21] Right. I was gonna say. I'm, I don't know. It's, it's tough because, um, comedians will tell you that it's, it's tough. You miss a lot. Listen, it's only on the weekends. And I, and I get to make people laugh, so.  
[00:08:32]  
[00:08:32] Travis Chappell: Well, it's also Monday at 10:00 AM and Your're home with their family.
[00:08:37] There's a lot of, I don't know, that's a conversation I've had a lot recently with my wife. You know, we have two kids. I'm 30, she's about to be 30. And we're traveling a lot constantly for work and stuff. And it hits you harder when your kids are like, you know, when your kids get old enough to start asking you, you know, like, Hey, why are you leaving?
[00:08:54] Travis Chappell: Or where are you going? You know, it's like, but we try to at least explain to them, you know, like, I'm doing this so that we can have this version of life that most people don't ever get to. That's right. Experience. That's right. And because I don't like to settle. . And I think that there's a lot of value in that as well.
[00:09:09] Bryan Callen: There's a huge amount of value in that because you're setting an example for your children Of excellence. And I think you have to live your, your life. I think when you use your children as an excuse not to live your life, I think that's a huge Fuck you. Totally. I think that's, I, it's a disservice. I don't agree with as parent.
[00:09:21] Yeah. So then I suppose you're there, but if your children understand that you're- you love them and that you're setting an example. I think there's a great deal of value in that. I don't know. Every child is different and every situation is different, but  
[00:09:34] Travis Chappell: As long as you get the main things across of like, I love you, care for you, and I do these things  
[00:09:39] Bryan Callen: Well, truth, you know?
[00:09:40] I mean, you wanna do this? I realized that I hated acting. I hate it. I don't like the process. I don't like it. Yeah. and I worked so hard at being good at it for years, and then when I finally realized I don't like this, I'm just gonna do standup. That's where I really feel alive.
[00:09:58] That's the best feeling in the world when I get to write my own stuff. And wrestle with being original and then put it up on stage. Yeah. There's nothing like that. I don't miss acting even a little bit. Really?  
[00:10:09] Travis Chappell: That's funny. How long did it take you realize that?  
[00:10:11] Bryan Callen: 50 fucking years, man. I, didn't accept.
[00:10:14] Until I was 53. I mean, it's unbelievable. It's fucking amazing how you get older and you're like it. It takes me, the frustrating thing about life is - , at least for me, I'm such a slow learner. I've been wrong more than I've been. Right? By far. It's  
[00:10:28] humbling.  
[00:10:28] Travis Chappell: I was listening to a interview, did I think it was recent, and you were mentioning how Joe Rogan was called you or something and said he was gonna quit acting, and at the time it  
[00:10:38] kind of blew your mind.
[00:10:39] Bryan Callen: Yeah, Joe was always ahead of the curve that way that motherfucker could, he would just, he was always telling me to just stop for as long as I can remember. He's like, fucking stop acting. Fucking do standup, dude.  
[00:10:49] Travis Chappell: I mean, back then though, like having a sitcom and like there was no YouTube, there's no-
[00:10:54] Bryan Callen: I know he saw in me that I wasn't that guy.
[00:10:57] He saw that I was a comic. You know, I just never fucking- if I had listened to Joe, like, this is a weird thing to say. I've never really said it, but if, I think if I had listened to him, like really listened to what he said about just focusing on standup and being my own person, Joe had to be his own person. Joe grew up without a dad, so Joe had to, he had to be his own person.
[00:11:19] The world, without going into detail at nine years old for Joe, the world got became a very dangerous place, and he realized that the only person he could rely on was himself. I never had that realization. I never had that. I always had a whole infrastructure of family I should rely on. That's not a service cuz you, it allows you to bullshit yourself for a long time.
[00:11:39] Travis Chappell: Kind of faith in the system instead of faith in yourself.  
[00:11:41] Bryan Callen: Yeah. It allows you to kind of like it, it allows you to not grow up all the way. And I don't think you grow up, you grow up completely when you realize there's that Instagram thing where the woman, I don't know who she was, she was like, nobody's coming.
[00:11:53] No one's coming. Nobody's coming. This is you, man. You stand on your own two feet. The people that I've seen that really do great things realize that very early on, and it came from some kind of trauma, which goes back to what I'm saying about if you understand how to navigate loss or navigate, chaos, trauma that way lies the gold.
[00:12:13] Sure. I don't think comfort necessarily makes for a dynamic human being.  
[00:12:19] Travis Chappell: Yeah. Or strong people with real values.  
[00:12:23] Bryan Callen: Yeah. This is, nothing new that we're saying, but, you know, but I, understand it deeply.  
[00:12:27] Travis Chappell: How do you think of that when it comes to parenting? This is like one of the biggest dichotomies for me as a dad. Cuz as a dad, you, you want to give your kids everything, but in giving them everything, you're taking away a lot of things from them. I think like it's not a good thing to be a shitty dad so that they have trauma to work through that makes them stronger, right?  
[00:12:44] Bryan Callen: I mean like, yeah. But you know, Newt Gingrich was on Jordan Peterson's podcast and he said something to the effect of, I come from a generation, the last two generations are of parents who believe that their kids have to like them.
[00:12:56] My mother did not raise us that way, and he used a couple examples of people, and it's true. I'm not your fucking friend. I'm your parent, and so I'm gonna make you do shit That sucks. My buddy does this. He says to his kids and his three kids are crushing it, and he. They're like, no. And he's like, I love you enough to be harder on you than the things you're gonna face. So do it. And so in my opinion, again, it goes back to I'm here. I love you. I'm your rock. I'll never go anywhere. But you're gonna do the things I tell you to do. You're gonna finish things. You started, you're gonna get good at something. Yeah. I say that to my son, my daughter.
[00:13:36] I, I need, no, my daughter, I don't need any motivation for that. That gal, she's 14 and she's just like, I wanna be a scientist as an engineer. I wanna be a singer, I wanna be a tennis player. I wanna be 50,000. And she's suing 'em all. And it's like, gee, I, I, and, and she talks about, Now I won't get into a college.
[00:13:52] I'm like, ah, you're 14. Don't, she's not allowed to talk about college. I, I lose my mind. I go, I don't wanna hear about college. Okay, how about having a little fun little joy in your life?  
[00:14:01] Travis Chappell: You're like, you're barely not a kid anymore.  
[00:14:02] Bryan Callen: Yeah, dude. She's type A man, type A competitive. Like if it's not a competition, she don't wanna do it.
[00:14:07] She gets it from her mother, she gets it from my dad. It's all good. So I don't have to worry about that girl at all. She's a monster in a good way.  
[00:14:13] My son is exactly like me. Escape Artist, Houdini, fucking Houdini. It's like, so I I gotta crack the whip I gotta crack the whip and he'll come in my I, my, my wrists.
[00:14:24] I fell on my wrists. So right now that my stomach is a little queasy, I had to, I'm like, that's cool. Your feelings don't matter here. Okay? This is not a democracy, this is a monarchy. I'm the king and you're giving me my fucking half hour of boxing or working out, whatever we're gonna do. But you're gonna get good at something
[00:14:43] because I can see that you have the same brain that I do, which is you want to take path of least re. . That's my problem. And the only reason I'm somewhat successful is because of my ego. I'm not impressed with myself, I'll tell you that much. You know? So you look at what motivates you and it's like, I don't know.
[00:15:00] Travis Chappell: Yeah. That's super interesting that you would, because from a third party objective standpoint, it would seem like you are the person that. Kind of strives for excellence all the time. All the time, and pushes yourself.
[00:15:10] Bryan Callen: I mean, I couldn't bear not being good. It's an alpha mentality. Sure, sure. I, I hate that alpha, beta shit, but I, but I would always come into, like, if it was a wrestling room or it was a, whatever it was, I was like, well, I can't feed JV I gotta be Varsity.
[00:15:24] Right? I gotta be, I gotta be the guy they're talking about. No matter what the fuck happens, I gotta figure out a.
[00:15:31] Travis Chappell: To be in the conversation
[00:15:32] Bryan Callen: No matter what. Even with boxing, when I started boxing, like I was too old and I was getting hit too much. I was getting dizzy, but Wayne McCulloch was like, you're such a fighter cause in my mind I'd get hit and I'd, I would fucking obsess. Yeah. I was like, I'm gonna punch that dude. I'm gonna knock that fucking guy. And it's, it's an outrageous thing to say when you're, when you're not a, when you're 50, whatever, I was 50 years old and also not a boxer and also not a tough guy, but I know that if I had started when I was really young, I would have CTE now because Totally.
[00:16:02] Yeah. Anything you do, you know, I would've had to figured out my way and I wouldn't have been as fast or strong, so I would've had to, I don't know. Who knows? And I probably would've failed. But, but I think that's a, that's a personality trait.  
[00:16:13] Travis Chappell: Did, you play sports growing up?  
[00:16:14] Bryan Callen: Yeah.  
[00:16:14] Travis Chappell: Okay. Which ones?
[00:16:15] Bryan Callen: I was mostly a wrestler. which is a nightmare.  
[00:16:17] Travis Chappell: Didn't pursue it much.  
[00:16:18] Bryan Callen: No. I went to, I went to, you know, D one school to wrestle. I went to American University and then I think I went to Dan Gable's wrestling camp in Iowa . And if anybody knows about that, it's a nightmare. It's a fucking nightmare.
[00:16:29] They train you, they train you, quote unquote, like a champion. And I, and I remember I went to college and I saw one of the kids walking and he had. . He was like a hundred and he was probably a hundred and in the 162 pound whatever, but just thick as shit. Probably walked around at one 90. Yeah. And I could see his ears and he was like a senior and he was walking like this, his body looked up and I was just like, and I, and I thought to myself, I could see the suffering on his body. Yeah. And I knew what the fuck it was gonna be. I knew I was gonna be waking up at 5:30 in the morning running sprints for an hour. I knew I'd be wrestling twice a day.
[00:17:00] And I, and I, and I knew I'd be sucking. And I, I knew what that pain was and I looked at him and I was like, at the end of this, what's gonna happen? I'm gonna be able to shoot a double leg really well and do those things. Now, what I should have said to myself was, if I can get through four years of a D1 program, and American wasn't a big D1 program, if I can get through four years of any program, wrestling program in college, It would've been amazing.
[00:17:23] It would've been in every way. All the benefits that come from that are, are intangible. You can't explain it. So my regret, I, oh, I have one regret, and that's not wrestling in college, but what I did and said is I, I got into kickboxing and you know TaeKwonDo. Because I saw these guys punching each other and kicking each other and I was like, I wanna learn how to do that.  
[00:17:40] Travis Chappell: Where was the aspiration for like comedy and acting and all that stuff?  
[00:17:44] Bryan Callen: I just, the only thing I was good at, I wasn't good at like martial arts.  
[00:17:47] Travis Chappell: So you did it immediately, like college?
[00:17:48] Bryan Callen: I was never gonna be a great at college, but it wasn't gonna be a good wrestler if I'd gone to American no matter what I did.
[00:17:53] I bet you I would've been too weak.  
[00:17:54] Travis Chappell: Well, what were you studying at American?  
[00:17:56] Bryan Callen: I, I was a history major, but I mean, again, I knew early on I was never gonna be a great athlete. It's not strong enough. I'm not, not, I don't have the mentality I, maybe I had the mentality to wrestle. Again, that competitive spirit, but there were guys that were just always gonna, there was no fucking way I was gonna be-
[00:18:12] Travis Chappell: On a certain level in athletics, raw talent combined with hard work beats exclusively hard work.  
[00:18:18] Bryan Callen: Well, I've talked to, I've talked to Ben Ascr, who doesn't believe in talent, which is, you know, he, he was obsessed with wrestling and. But I, wasn't that way and, I didn't have Ben as aspirin's mind, and I certainly was never gonna, you know, so I, I just, maybe I didn't love it enough.
[00:18:32] Maybe I wasn't, maybe I was, I think I'm inherently moderate at the same time. Physically, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna train eight hours a day and Right. And then have two fake hips in two fake knees. Like Dan gable.  
[00:18:42] Travis Chappell: Right. Exactly. That's part of the journey . Doing stuff, learning and figuring out that, eh, maybe that's not for me. And then pivoting and moving a different direction.  
[00:18:48] Bryan Callen: I always say that. I always say that like, sports are important for at least men because you learn how tough you're not.  
[00:18:55] Yeah. Right, right, right. That's fucking  
[00:18:56] huge, dude.  
[00:18:57] Travis Chappell: Yeah. Or what you're willing to do to be, that's the thing for me is anything worth having is gonna be a struggle to get. Anything in life,  
[00:19:03] Bryan Callen: You'll never hear me say, man, I would've been a navy. Yeah, I know. I couldn't make it first I'd get too cold. , I, I, I fucking, I get high of lack of sleep for me, man.
[00:19:13] Travis Chappell: All of it. Lack of sleep thing. I would've been like, I'm out. I gotta take a nap.  
[00:19:16] Bryan Callen: Yeah. I mean, have you've ever been around guys like Tim Kennedy or they, you know Mike Glover, you're just like, did their fucking smartest shit and they just have a different engine.
[00:19:24] It's like, you're not cold. Mr. Mike, this guy Mike, uh, Ritland the other day. Ritler, I think. and he, he's, he trains police dogs and I do this series called Best of, and I had this dog, you know, kind of launch on my. But um, he was a Navy Seal. I'm in four layers in Dallas cause it was 37 degrees. He's in a fucking T-shirt rolled up and just talking to me for an hour, an hour and a half. I go, are you not cold? He goes, what? I go, you're not cold. And he goes, I don't know. I, I didn't notice it. I go, well that's why I'm a pussy. That's why you were a Navy Seal. And I'm an actor in four layers, so I'll, I'll never be happy cuz I'm ultimately not though.
[00:20:03] Travis Chappell: So when, when you were in college, was the goal acting at that point?  
[00:20:08] Bryan Callen: I think I wanted so badly to be liked. I think that's a huge part of, again, what drove me was not admirable. I think I just wanted to be loved and I saw, I think I saw a tennis player and all these people were all over him. I think it was Masland or someone, and I just was like, I want to be admired like that.
[00:20:32] I wanna be different. I wanna be special. I want to be the kind of person they talk about, not who's talk. I, I didn't wanna be a spectator. I wanted to be the person out there, and I gotta taste that from wrestling. You, you're alone out there on that mat. And I, I had done things as a kid. I was very driven.
[00:20:48] I had accomplished certain things like in judo, like little things like that, that I didn't expect to accomplish. So I got a taste of, I will, Somehow I could run for a long distance. I won a race. I remember when I was, uh, 12 or 11. And I beat the adults. Or 12, I don't know what I was, but 13, maybe 14.
[00:21:05] Bryan Callen: But I, I ran and I, and I, couldn't understand, and I realized I finished second, and I, was like, well, I did. I I had no idea. Yeah. Or when I was, I was in eighth grade and I won. This is fucking hilarious to even talk about this, but I won most athletic kid in school when I was in eighth grade. I was so shocked.
[00:21:22] I was so shocked. I didn't know what they, she said, Bryan Cullen, and I didn't move, and I said to my mother, I go, I won. My mother goes, well, you're very coordinated, Cullen. Hey. Okay. I guess it was the fucking craziest thing, and I think it was eighth grade. I don't fucking. Maybe it was sixth grade, who cares?
[00:21:38] But the point is I remember those feelings Yeah. Of being singled out. And I said, I want to be that over this. But then I realized the, I'm not good in anything. I, I ca I don't know what am I gonna be, what am I good at? Singling, I don't know. I was so moved by movies and I go, I want to do that. And then I saw, Robert De Niro in Raging Bull.
[00:21:57] Yeah. And I saw Bruce. I listened to Springsteen songs for the first time, and I go, whatever's going on inside me when I listen to those songs, that poetry And whatever's going on inside me, going on inside of me. When I watch Robert De Niro, I didn't know who he was, transformed his body. Yeah. I was so blown away and so moved by the.
[00:22:17] You know, that I, I didn't know what to do with myself. I just needed to somehow either be a part of it, create it, you know, the mystery. The mystery of is that for me, could I do that? And they just like the idea that I was gonna be a standup comic. I mean, what? Hey Bryan why don't you try being a Senator?
[00:22:40] You know, it's an out outrage.  
[00:22:41] Travis Chappell: It's just as outlandish.  
[00:22:42] Bryan Callen: Yeah. Yeah, so, so anytime you have this dream, a lot of times it's like, you know, I was talking to Adam Duritz, who's the lead singer of Counting Crows, and he said, when I was younger, I was just so desperate to be heard. And I was like, that's, that's it.
[00:22:54] That's right. That's right. So maybe I was just, I was desperate to see if I could distinguish myself. I was desperate. I was desperate to see if I could be as unique as I felt. I just didn't wanna be ordinary.  
[00:23:09] Travis Chappell: Yeah. Why?
[00:23:11] That's the question I've been asking a lot lately. Because people can grow up in the same exact situation, to the same parents in the same environment, and end up on two totally different paths. And I've tried to ask myself that question because I feel very similar in terms of there's just, I don't, I can't explain it. I don't know why. It just kind of, there's something in me that just makes me want more things.  
[00:23:31] Bryan Callen: Well, you're getting into, you're getting into religion here a little bit because, or philosophy, let's say, because the Why when you're young is status, power, sex, attention.
[00:23:42] Dominance, whatever. It's Right. You, you just want to be the person with the resources. And you want to be the person who is got the adulation. All the guy. Yes. I think life humbles you. And I think what happens is you realize that no matter who you are, you're gonna lose all that. And that, that's a fool's errand.
[00:24:01] I, I, you're excused for the trance and the spell. it casts on you as a young person, but I think that as you get to be my age, you start to realize that that's not the goal.  
[00:24:14] The goal is to do these things and to try to be original in your expression for its own sake. You're never more yourself than when at play.
[00:24:22] I'm, I'm quoting Shiller right now that because when he said, you're never, a man is never more at himself than when at play what he was talking. When you're doing that, not, not hookers and an 8-ball, you know, but when you're doing that, that what you would do for its own sake, something you would do for free.
[00:24:41] Sure. Right?  
[00:24:42] And so then you start to, the, goal is to let go of yourself, uh, in a way to prepare for your own inevitable demise and, and, ultimate extinction, your death. I want to, as Socrates said, I want to treat my own body and my own appetites with a quiet contemp. I don't want to be attached to any sensation.
[00:25:02] Maybe I'm getting closer to the idea of what God is or certainly being closer to that which I cannot measure, and that which is much larger than myself. and I don't have to define it. In fact, in many religions it would be heretical to try to define it, right? It's why the Jews and the, the, the Muslims don't have.
[00:25:21] You know, saints and, and, you know, iconography and things in their, in their temples and in their mosques, because that would be considered the worship of false gods. Right?  
[00:25:31] And, and I think maybe the greatest lesson in the, in at least the Judeo-Christian ethic is don't worship false gods. The Israelites were constantly being punished.
[00:25:45] For worshiping false gods, including the fact that they were like, we need a leader. And God was like, I gave you the 10 Commandments. I'm your leader. Yeah. Really? Okay. That's what you guys wanna do. Fuck off. And he gave 'em one leader after another and never worked. But there, there are lessons in that, the Book of Kings, the book of judges and stuff like that, that that's literally the whole Jewish Bible, or at least the Old Testament I should say.
[00:26:04] It's like just that lesson of you guys keep looking for the answers over here where a. lives as opposed to the  
[00:26:13] Travis Chappell: Things that you can consciously conceive.  
[00:26:15] Bryan Callen: Yeah. It's, it's an interesting, it's a philosophy or a faith or a Yeah. A, a a system of beliefs that I'm very intrigued by.
[00:26:23] Yes. As we get older, because you can, you can read philosophy like, you know, every time I talk to you like, Silicon Valley guy, Just, there are a lot of people I know who are into longevity. A lot of guys my age who are into longevity, you know what I mean? They wanna say, yeah, bro, they want a biohack so they can live fucking till they're 150
[00:26:42] So they can look at themselves in the mirror when their skin is, when they look like a fucking Halloween porch decoration. And they want to go. I need another 50 years. You know? Okay. I look 25, 250. I guess I'd become a master pianist and guitarist. I don't know what the fuck I, I understand the impulse to live forever.
[00:27:01] I want to too. But that love of oneself is a form of idolatry. It doesn't really,  
[00:27:08] Travis Chappell: It tends to be with people who are the least religious.  
[00:27:11] Bryan Callen: Well, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Is that you're gonna, you're gonna get religious about something else. Sure. And so every time I talk to the Silicon Valley people, you talk to 'em about meditation or even prayer, whatever that is.
[00:27:22] The, the first question they, they ask is, has, does that boost your productivity? What's that on a percentage scale, what would you say? Shut the fuck.  
[00:27:30] Bryan Callen: Shut up you,  
[00:27:32] I don't care about you, shouldn't care about you. I eat a certain way. I, I intermittent fast. I don't give a fuck.
[00:27:41] I wanna die.  
[00:27:42] Those are the people I admire.  
[00:27:44] Martin Luther King and Gandhi and Malcolm X and Jesus Christ, and all the people, that admire and the Buddha, they weren't like, I have abs actually. because what I'm doing now is I'm intermittent fasting. I'm taking this drug there, tends to lengthen my ...,
[00:27:57] you can't stand it.  
[00:28:02] Get the fuck outta here.  
[00:28:04] A bus is gonna hit you. Yeah. You're gonna fucking die. And you might beat me by a year, but I doubt it, by the way, you fucking hack you, bio hacker.  
[00:28:15] Travis Chappell: No, that is, that is the crazy thing. Not to get to somber or serious, but my, one of my best friends when growing up, his mom was in mid fifties last week, two weeks ago, got in a car accident and didn't make it.
[00:28:26] Bryan Callen: Happens all the time, brother.  
[00:28:27] Travis Chappell: It was just like a, it was one of those, because. You do. you try to stay healthy, go to the gym,  
[00:28:31] work out.  
[00:28:32] Bryan Callen: And you get pancreatic cancer, but you never had a drink or cigarette in your life. That's what life is.  
[00:28:38] Travis Chappell: I grew up with, she was 27, 28, got a stage four stomach cancer.
[00:28:42] She died, diagnosed, and she's a nurse. Super healthy. A nurse that's And passed away. like two years ago.  
[00:28:48] Bryan Callen: Yeah. That's called life in her twenties. And people should study how that happens and they should study how to stop that and they should use their own bodies. Guine big. Sure. I respect all of them.
[00:28:56] Sure. Just please understand. Nobody gets out of this thing alive right.  
[00:29:01] Travis Chappell: The great equalizer.  
[00:29:03] Bryan Callen: It's nothing wrong. We're trying to be as healthy as you can and optimizing, but it can't be the only thing.  
[00:29:07] Travis Chappell: So on another note, I saw something you said about two questions that, that you've really tried to answer in your life, or two questions that you think matter, which is,  
[00:29:16] What
[00:29:16] is courage and what is being a man?
[00:29:19] Have you found answers to those questions and how do you think about them?  
[00:29:22] Bryan Callen: I did a podcast again with this guy, Mike, Mike Ritler, and he, and these dogs are, I mean, dude, a 67 pound dog Will rip you to shreds. It will rip. I don't give a shit who you are. This thing was biting through the fucking bite suit and I was like, oh my God.
[00:29:39] The pressure. And I was like, well, they shut your arm off. I don't care who you are. That dog is gonna take you to the ground and you're gonna be screaming and you're done. And the lack of fear in that dog's face. But it took him three years to get that dog to that point. So even a dog that's been bred for that, you can break that dog very quickly and very easily if you're not careful.
[00:29:59] Bryan Callen: And building that dog's confidence is a huge part of the technique when it comes to bite work. And I said, he goes, I've learned more about human nature. Working with dogs than anything else. And this is a guy who was a Navy Seal who was saying that I have a, I think some of it's a genetic, anomaly, which is all of us don't have the same sense of self-preservation a lot of other people do.
[00:30:20] So maybe that's what it is. You're right, you're kind of born with a certain sort of lack of fear. So, there is, courage is inherent in some ways. Some people just don't have the imagination for what could go wrong. But if you hear someone like Hickson, Gracei Hickson, Gracie will tell you that fear and intelligence are very closely related and people who have no fear tend to be, there's the bravado of a fool.
[00:30:43] So I don't know that I believe in courage, so to speak. I mean, you are brave when you have been taught how to navigate the situation. And I think there is something called courage to be the best you can be. I do think courage exists. I would define courage as being terrified, but taking, assuming the position anyway.
[00:31:04] And so that would be the idea that I can, but that would be something like sacrifice, something like self-control, which is how the Greeks define character. The reason we admire people that do that, it's not that they aren't terrified. When Nelson Mandela was sentenced to death, you could see him swallow.
[00:31:23] Bryan Callen: He was terrified. He didn't show it, but he was fucking terrified he was gonna die. Nobody is brave when you lock that cage in UFC I've talked to too many badass fighters. They're always afraid. They're always terrified if that, you know, it's like, I gotta fight now. Holy. This is the most uncomfortable shit GSP, the stories about him going, I don't wanna go out there, this is fucking nuts.  
[00:31:42] Yeah. He's a brilliant man who realized this is the dumbest shit on the planet. But he was so good and, and my buddy Andy Stump talking about being a SEAL Team six guys and being the squirrel suit guy, he, he used to hold the world record for the squirrel suit and he's like, I'm just risk averse.
[00:31:57] I was just very careful. Now I think he's full of shit. He's also crazy. But, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, , so, so courage is probably not, not, you know, not the Spartan, you know Greek Version of charging the hill that exists. But that might just be the idea that you're just not, you're able to not indulge in, you're standing porter at the door of your mind and not allowing any of the bad, but that's a huge part of it too.
[00:32:25] Again, learning what not to think about, mastering the ability to allow only. The positive things and the positive outcomes, potential positive outcomes into your mind and keeping the other things out. That's a huge part of it.  
[00:32:39] Bryan Callen: And being a man, well, you know, I know what traditional masculinity is:
[00:32:44] stoic provider, protector. And I agree with all that because that's inherent in us. It's not my fault. It's what, how I evolved. My aggression. I need it. My anger, I need it. My fear, I need it. My ability to prepare for a worst case scenario, I fucking need it. Cuz the world is a war. It's not a community, it's not how I think.
[00:33:08] Okay.  
[00:33:09] And so there is that inside of all of us as men, but you don't measure strength with one metric who can lift the most weight? the NFL the Stock Market you measure strength with in many different metrics. How creative are you? There are people that are, can't do one pushup, but they can create beauty for its own sake, and it's what we all point to.
[00:33:30] I don't know that Steve Jobs had abs. I don't know what Steve Jobs, Fran time was in CrossFit. Okay. And I don't think anybody gives a fuck . He was incredibly creative. You know, Isaac Mizrahi is gay. As it gets, I don't wanna live in a world without Isaac Mizrahi. I don't wanna live in a world like that.
[00:33:46] Like that Chechenia where they kill gay people. Cuz they're so fucking, cuz that that fucking guy is so dumb. He doesn't understand what people who are different provide a. Doesn't realize that people who are creative, who might love differently or think differently, have other strengths that make your culture strong, make your culture creative.
[00:34:07] That's the irony of, of measuring strength with when you measure strength with one metric, which is the men who have the biggest club or the biggest guns, you get Somalia. You get Afghanistan The chaos of a Somalia. I'm not talking about their cultures, I'm not talking about their people.
[00:34:21] Bryan Callen: Sure, sure. I'm talking about the, the chaos countries became when men rule everything with a gun, fuck off. It makes you weak. That's the irony.  
[00:34:30] Travis Chappell: Which is another thing that makes America so awesome.  
[00:34:33] Bryan Callen: That's right. that's why. It's also why there's nothing left a Sparta, but some shards of clay, some pottery and Athens has left a legacy of incredible literature and philosophy and everything.
[00:34:45] Travis Chappell: Yeah. I find,  
[00:34:46] There are a few common denominators with, you know, done over 800 episodes of show, interviewed hundreds of really successful and smart people. And one of the things that I find is kind of a common denominator between all of those people is the ability to overcome rejection.
[00:35:00] And, we're kind of talking about about this a little bit earlier, but I've did door-to-door sales for multitude of years and I'm very familiar with rejection myself. And I would say that of all things that's probably. The most direct feedback in terms of rejection and if there were one thing that I would say is even a step further than doing just straight up a hundred percent commission door to door sales, it would be acting in standup comedy.
[00:35:24] How do you view rejection and are like, is there a structure or a system through which you help yourself overcome those things and keep moving on to the success?  
[00:35:33] Bryan Callen: It's just built into the model. I mean, it's just built into the model. It's like saying, I, I want to train in m m A and I fucking, I got knocked out.
[00:35:40] I hurt my nose, you know, I'm sore. My back is sore. I'm not, I'm not, ma-, I didn't make a hundred million dollars this year and I'm not gonna work really hard at my jiujitsu. That's right. Motherfucker, you're gonna be poor with a roommate in your thirties, but that's not, that's all built into the model.
[00:35:59] You wanna be an actor? Cool. You wanna be a standup? I'll see you in 10 years. And then you're still not gonna make it. So it's just part of the thing. You just follow your, it, it's not a rational choice. Yeah. The rejection has nothing to do with it. I got seven yeses in TW in 30 years. Seven significant yeses.
[00:36:18] and the rest were No's I'm not joking,  
[00:36:21] Travis Chappell: But for like roles you're talking about.  
[00:36:22] Bryan Callen: Yeah. seven things worked out.  
[00:36:24] Travis Chappell: Out of how many shots?  
[00:36:25] In 30 years? I mean in 30 years. Thousands. Yeah. It's my baby. I apologize. Silence child! . I don't stand for that.
[00:36:33] Bryan Callen: I run my house with an iron fist. All right. He's gonna have some baby cuz he is 10 months like nah, . Yeah. My son will be a king. He will be separated from his mother. You have one more month. Learn how to eat gruel from a bowl. Sleep in a cold marble slab and understand that the only thing, the only true friend, the only true constant he can rely on is pain.
[00:36:59] Pain and Solitude, my son, sorry  
[00:37:03] guys. Sorry.  
[00:37:04] Manhattan Beach ,  
[00:37:06] With lots of cuddles.  
[00:37:07] Travis Chappell: So you've also done these kind of like guest roles on 30 shows.  
[00:37:13] Bryan Callen: Yeah. Everything I said yes to everything. I'm a whore.  
[00:37:15] What were some of them that you think you would've made a great regular on?
[00:37:19] Travis Chappell: Or that you wish you could've?  
[00:37:20] Bryan Callen: Everything. Everything. You know you're asking me. I think I'm, I think I should, I'm amazing. Everything. Yeah, of course. I mean, you have to think that as an actor, it's like, not me. Yeah. Fuck. You don't want, you want, you want medium. You don't want medium and wrinkled. What the fuck?
[00:37:37] And that, that's the other thing that's humbling. He's like, you see yourself and you're like, I don't think I've, I'd cast my, me either, unless I was casting super regular guy, super average dude. Middle of the Rose Guy. 5 11, 1 70, but short femur bones, so he looks shorter.  
[00:37:53] Travis Chappell: Whatever. That's on the casting call. There's. A lot of those people out there,  
[00:37:57] I would choose you over me. You're a much better looking guy. I'd be like, get the guy with the fucking hair. And he's bigger and well, why would you get the fucking that guy over there, ? It's like, I had this joke of my standup and it was true. If I picked a pocket in a parade, you know, if I picked your pocket in a parade, you wouldn't know how to describe me to the cops.
[00:38:15] Bryan Callen: They, they wouldn't have anything going. He was medium, brown hair, white .  
[00:38:21] Travis Chappell: That sketch artist would've a tall order.  
[00:38:23] Oh, every guy. Let's start with an oval face and fucking two dots for eyes. That's, by the way, my special man tears just dropped YouTube. It's free.  
[00:38:34] Travis Chappell: Oh man. Is there, one that comes to mind that was like really fun or?  
[00:38:37] Bryan Callen: Yeah, they were all fun. But you know, again, the reason I'm not crazy about acting was only because, um, it was more the people I get to work with. It's the bonding experience. Yeah. You know, I just did, uh, a movie. My buddy Kevin Max movie, McIntyre, McNamara's movie.
[00:38:52] I think it's gonna be great with, Amanda Clayton and uh, Mark O'Brien. Really great. Great actors and, but I get to work with my buddy Eric Griffin and, Jimmy Schubert. Hilarious motherfuckers, hilarious comics. Smart as shit. That is so fun. Yeah. Just to be on set. And then Kevin is my boy too, so we're just all hanging out and it's a beautiful thing.
[00:39:11] So the, it's the acting gets in the way. Even like people like Paul Gati, like we were doing Hangover two and he had. Or nominated for, an Emmy. I think he won it, but for, and he was just like, this is so much more fun. I'm walking around seven. Everybody's like getting character. It's like, ah, you know, the acting gets in the way.
[00:39:28] I think he said that I'm quoting him. I maybe he didn't. Sorry, Paul, but you know, I remember, I never forgot that. I was like, it was this great actor who's, you know, it is what it is.  
[00:39:37] Travis Chappell: If you, if you meet somebody out on the street and they're like, I know you from something, what are the first things that you tell them that they might  
[00:39:43] know?
[00:39:43] the Hangover it, you know, the Joe Rogan podcast. I, it's fucking amazing. Um,  
[00:39:48] Travis Chappell: That is pretty incredible that people would know you from Joe Rogan.  
[00:39:51] Bryan Callen: That's how big his podcast is. you never know these things. how I met your mother, everything. All that stuff. I don't know.
[00:39:58] The Goldbergs,he's the coach, you know? Yeah. All that. Yeah.
[00:40:04] Travis Chappell: First credit on IMDB that we looked at today is playing Joe Rogan's brother on News radio. And you throw him through a window. Yeah. Cue clip. How did, how did that come about? Is this, was this like  
[00:40:14] pre friendship post?  
[00:40:15] Bryan Callen: No, he had done Mad TV and, and, we just got along, man, because the other actors didn't really know what to do with this really muscular guy who was very kind of standoffish.
[00:40:24] He was just a little bit like, what the fuck am I doing here? Yeah. But he was a comic and he, he was, You know, he had, he had his armor up and I just saw it right away. And I just liked him. Cause he was in the martial arts Iowa too. We were into ju this new thing called Brazilian Jiujitsu  
[00:40:38] Travis Chappell: I would say that was before anybody.
[00:40:39] Bryan Callen: We were like occupied. We just like, we were just obsessed with it. And, he was in, he was a TaeKwonDo guy. Me too. And, you know. Yeah. But, you know, and, and, uh, you know, all that stuff. So, so we were young guys. Yeah. And we looked a little bit alike, you know. Don't know, we just hit it  
[00:40:54] off, man.
[00:40:54] Travis Chappell: With, with like a role like that, is that something the producer asked or was Joe  
[00:40:58] like,  
[00:40:58] Bryan Callen: No. Really bullied me in. It's like he can played my brother, he's the best. Fuck I was in New York. And he, he goes, come to LA, you're coming. I was like, awesome. And it was, it was so much fun.  
[00:41:08] Travis Chappell: And that was, that was legitimately your first credit on, on I'm to be like, that was your first thing that you did.
[00:41:13] Bryan Callen: No, I'd done a soap opera. I'd done Mad TV before and Mad tv. I had done that for two years.  
[00:41:16] Are you in standup at that point?  
[00:41:19] yes. I started doing standup before MAD tv, and then when I got Mad tv, when I would come home to New York, I would do some standup.
[00:41:26] But for the most part, I stopped doing standup, for five years.  
[00:41:30] Travis Chappell: But back then, what wasn't the overall kind of idea? Like you do stand up so that you  
[00:41:35] can get on tv?  
[00:41:36] Yes, yes. And make millions of dollars and have a cushy life. And get royalties from your sitcoms  
[00:41:41] I
[00:41:42] Bryan Callen: swear to God, most of my career was I just wanted to date beautiful women and eat really well.
[00:41:47] Literally. I was like, I wanna, you know, I wanna be a famous actor so I. so I can marry a 10. And eat at the best restaurants and drink the best wine. That's how superficial I was. Everything was a crime. I just wanted that beautiful house and I wanted to be successful. And success was a cool car.
[00:42:06] Uh, your beautiful wife and, or, you know, our, our beautiful girlfriend and eating. I if you strip it down, it's embarrassing to say that, but I mean, I always had the imagination of wanting to be a great artist, so I'm being a little bit dramatic. Obviously that's not true.
[00:42:22] I wanted to be Robertson DeNiro sure.  
[00:42:24] Travis Chappell: Well, there's lots of ways to eat well, and -
[00:42:26] I take all of that back. I take it all that because actually, nevermind. This is where I say shit, and I'm like, that's not true. The, the truth is, I wanted to be a great artist. I wanted to be a great actor.
[00:42:38] Bryan Callen: I wanted to be Robert Deniro on Raging Bull. I wanted to be Christopher Walken in King of New York and the Deer Hunter. Those movies moved me so much, I couldn't take it. I couldn't even watch them, so I just wanted to touch that greatness. That's all I cared about. But I think what happened was I, realized, I didn't even know how to get into that.
[00:42:57] I also didn't know how to do that. I didn't have that schooling. I'd gone to theater school in New York and I'd, I was in class in la but I just didn't, I, don't know, man. I just, I just started to realize that I was never going to be that brooding deep actor, and I was a jackass. I was a silly goose, and that's when I felt the most alive.
[00:43:16] And I had to let go of that. I had to let go of my, I had to let go of that. Yeah. I had to let go of who I was trying to be, and I was pretending to be somebody I wasn't. I also took on a persona because, for me, I didn't have any- I didn't come from anywhere. That's a big thing. A huge thing for me was I didn't come from anywhere.
[00:43:36] Bryan Callen: I came from everywhere.I was moved all the time, so I didn't have any roots stories, people. I didn't come from a place, and when I would try to write, I would always write, I was always writing. I didn't have any place. I didn't know where to place it. I was fabricating everything.
[00:43:56] And so my, screens plays, nothing worked.  
[00:43:59] Travis Chappell: Trying to be who you thought you had to be to be that person  
[00:44:02] rather than being the expression of -
[00:44:03] Bryan Callen: Right. But my mother was from Brooklyn, for the Italian side was all. and they were Italian, so that's what I, I didn't know the Irish side in Wisconsin. So I, I latched onto this idea of being a New Yorker from New York, an Italian guy from New York.
[00:44:19] I latched onto it, and then I, I made a lot of great friends in New York, so they became my, my base, but I just, I still wasn't,  
[00:44:29] Travis Chappell: You've, done a lot of work with Todd Phillips. How did that relationship come about?  
[00:44:33] Bryan Callen: He's a genius and he. He just loved this character. I did one time for him when we were, I, I was out to dinner with him and Brecken Meyer, Brecken Meyer's, an actor, and introduced me to him and I would do this Israeli porn star on stage.
[00:44:47] I think I would make you nice all the way camera, get my balls, you know.  
[00:44:51] And he fucking loved that so much. And he just put me in old school.  
[00:44:55] Travis Chappell: He saw you do it on stage or?  
[00:44:56] Bryan Callen: Yeah, he put me in Old School as that guy and then he just loved me. And then, and then the hangover came along and, uh, he wanted me to play, uh, he put me in Bad Santa, which people don't know, but Todd Phillips rewrote from page one, bad Santa and directed it.
[00:45:10] Yeah. His name's not on it, but he did that. Yes. And um, he's fucking genius. And then, uh, hangover came along this little movie cuz nobody wanted to. Old school too. They all said no to him. And he's like, really? You fucking guys are gonna say no to me? Good. This is called revenge. And he wrote the Hangover, well, I think was Scott Armstrong.
[00:45:27] And Jeremy, um, can't remember his last name, but, Fucking amazing. Right. And they, they killed it. And and the character initially was supposed to be from New York. A guy like Eddie, who's from Long Island, who had this wedding chap wedding chapell. And yeah. And I, on at the read, I said, I think you should be from Armenia or Lebanon or something like that.
[00:45:46] I'm going to do it like this. Yeah. I can get you anything. So he just lets me improvise . So anyway,  
[00:45:52] Travis Chappell: And then you can see your face and hands in the, in the Joker if  
[00:45:55] Bryan Callen: It's been five days in that or whatever with maybe it was three days. I don't know, with, What's his name? I knew he was gonna not Counter Reeves,
[00:46:05] Travis Chappell: That'd be a crazy different Joker playing counters, playing Joker.
[00:46:08] Bryan Callen: And, uh, I knew he was gonna win an Oscar, but I, I knew I saw him shooting that scene in the bus when I got there. I was like, oh, he's gonna win an Oscar. I could. It is like the fighter. The first time I saw the fighter in that opening frame, when I saw what Christian Bell was doing, I go, I was like, oh, oh my God.
[00:46:21] I knew immediately. Yeah, that fast the same thing with the Joker. I was like, he, he got down 126 pounds for this. He's eating an apple a day.  
[00:46:29] He was 126 pounds for that.  
[00:46:31] Travis Chappell: Yeah, yeah.  
[00:46:32] Bryan Callen: Gosh. Or whatever. He was I mean, anybody's willing to put them.  
[00:46:36] The people like that. Yeah. Daniel Day Lewis Count, Joaquin Phoenix.
[00:46:40] Bryan Callen: The people who are willing to do that to their body. Christian Bale. Yeah.Meryl Street, whatever those people, DeNiro like, I don't know what they're into.I don't know why they like that kind of masochistic process. I, I have no idea what they're getting out of that. Yeah. But whatever they're getting fine.
[00:46:58] I, I am not that guy. That's never happening. I don't care enough.
[00:47:01] Travis Chappell: But that's the, kind of goes back to that moment of clarity for you, right? It's like, I want to be that. But also when you strip it down and look at everything that goes into that, it's like, actually, I don't want to do that at all. No, I'd rather be this guy.
[00:47:15] Bryan Callen: Yeah. You know? I know. It's like, I like skiing. I just hate the equipment and the fucking cold .  
[00:47:21] Travis Chappell: What is your best advice to, you know, I'll be selfish here. A 30 year old you.
[00:47:28] ,Ambitious young man.  
[00:47:30] Bryan Callen: I mean, it depends on what you want. I think the first thing is to come to terms with what you want.
[00:47:34] And I mean, honestly want, what do you honestly revere? And part of the problem is that you have children and and you have people that provide for, but I would say if you wanna really get to know who you are, you get very good at one thing, get very good at, something , that's the value of Jiujitsu or whatever it might be playing the guitar get really good because you'll have to face up to lots of your shortcomings.
[00:47:59] You'll have to overcome your shortcomings. You'll have to learn how to speak to yourself in the right way, and then you can apply those lessons to anything. But I would also ask yourself, what are you truly motivated by being original money? What is it? And it's fine. It doesn't- be honest.
[00:48:16] There's nothing wrong with being motivated. , the things you can't really admit to, which is some people just wanna be famous. Some people want to be rich cuz they grew up poor and that was humiliating.  
[00:48:28] Humiliating to be treated like a second class citizen. So when they wear a beautiful watch and they drive a beautiful car, the valet and everybody else treats them with respect.
[00:48:37] And if you don't understand that - you grew up with money. If you don't have a compassion for, see there are a lot of people, like a lot of women are very materialistic. My friends. Uh, I know somebody who's very material. This woman is very materialistic, but she grew up poor man. Yeah. She grew up. So she's not materialistic.
[00:48:52] She just, she hated that feeling and all this nice stuff makes her feel safe. It makes her feel like she never has to eat shit again. So, you know, it depends on what you're motivated by. But you have hustle, man. I'm not worried about you. You have hustle, you got here, you know, and, if you like talking to people, which you obviously do, and, and you learn, I think you're doing, you're doing the right thing.
[00:49:18] Be patient. Consistency is more important than hard work. Consistency is, showing up every day is really the secret. Not, not just daily attendance or regular attendance. Consistent attendance, Is way more important than hard work, than grinding those eight hours a day, which I don't believe in. I don't believe in discipline.
[00:49:40] I don't believe in discipline. I don't believe in, I gotta fucking lose weight. Okay. Good luck. You keep that. I believe in inspiration I believe in associating pleasure with whatever you're trying to do, you know?  
[00:49:51] Travis Chappell: Well, dude, I appreciate you coming on. I don't want to take up too much of your time. I know you got some stuff to do.
[00:49:55] Last thing bef before we go, so the show's called Travis Makes Friends, and, we kind of switched the, the whole message because I found that the more connected we get as society as a whole, I feel like the more disconnected we are because people are working virtually, it's harder to go deep on relationships.
[00:50:13] I feel like any anymore, and it's harder to find friendships as an adult when you have a bunch of stuff going on. You got kids, you got- you know, ambition. You got this thing, this project, and then you, if you're not careful, you can go your whole life and then wake up when you're 60 and go like, man, I don't really have any like real friends.
[00:50:28] And I think that would be a failure on my part. And I think that a lot of people my age are probably going to be going through that without really realizing  
[00:50:35] Travis Chappell: it.  
[00:50:35] Bryan Callen: You get it more when you're in my age, men lose their connection to. And they get lonely. And I think after this or this one hour, I, I consider you my best friend and I love you more than my children.
[00:50:46] And I said it out loud, and I don't give a shit who, who knows it or who hears it. Okay. You're a producer. I don't trust  
[00:50:54] Travis Chappell: That's a good call. Yeah, that's good call.  
[00:50:55] Bryan Callen: That's not even a real camera he's holding.I know. And I think there are things that live in his beard, like small sparrows and maybe even hornets.
[00:51:02] I don't know. He looks like the devil. I said it. I don't give fuck, I'll be friends with him too.  
[00:51:08] Travis Chappell: The question is like, how do you actually go make friends? How do you recommend to other people? Go, find some friends, fill your life with relationships and like we were talking about earlier, connection, laughter, experiences.
[00:51:17] Bryan Callen: Yeah. Find, find interesting people, find colorful people and know how to look for it. Create experiences that they can share. And it's not just about you can go watch a game and drink a beer, that's great and people need connection. I also think. I also think there's a spirited relationship to be had between people you disagree with and engaging in that, and also just having, yeah, I think we mark our life with the number of times we laugh and the times that, you know, the experiences that, so the, two things that are the most, the rarest commodities are adventure and intimacy.
[00:51:51] And a lot of times adventure builds intimacy. So, you know, If you have to die young, but leave a good looking corpse. You know, you said basically turn your life into a circus. And that's probably the best way to foster real relationships.  
[00:52:07] Travis Chappell: And really good way to wrap up this episode. Dude, thanks so much for coming on.
[00:52:10] brother, before we take off, where do you want people to  
[00:52:12] Travis Chappell: go to find more.  
[00:52:13] Bryan Callen: December 1, 2, 3, and 4 I'm at Naples at the, Off the Hook Comedy Club. My special man tears just dropped on YouTube, man. Tears. Albeit in, in, uh, Fort Wayne, Indiana at the Summit Comedy Club, in January. Perfect. I don't know where else I'm gonna be.
[00:52:31] Oh, in March I'll be in New York at the Sony Theater. Yeah. But, that's where I'm gonna be, man. Best of my TV show on YouTube. Just dropped, uh, my last episode, so tune in,  
[00:52:41] Travis Chappell: Man Tears on YouTube. Go check out Brian's new special. I always love giving it. give it a look when, whenever you come up with new stuff, I'm always looking for new stuff from you.
[00:52:51] I appreciate you coming on and, yeah, thanks for taking the time. Thanks for inviting us into your home and yeah, man, allowing us to invade for a second. We appreciate it.  

[00:52:56] Bryan Callen: Absolutely. Ç


[00:00:00] Bryan Callen: I was desperate to see if I could distinguish myself. I was desperate. I was desperate to see if I could be as unique as I felt. I just didn't want to be ordinary. [00:00:13] Travis Chappell: Today I'm making friends with Bryan Callen. If you hate laughing, then you will hate today's guest. Bryan Callen is one of my all-time favorite people in the comedy space at the moment.[00:00:23] Whether you know him from his roles in movies like The Hangover or Old School, his frequent appearances on the Joe Rogan experience, or his own podcast, the Fighter and the Kid with Brennan Shab, or even the Bryan Callen show. This episode will show you a side of Bryan that you probably are not familiar with. More about being a dad, more about how to overcome struggle in life and why it's important to put yourself through struggle.[00:00:46] We talked about so many things that I've been eager to ask him, that he normally does not get into. If you are a fan of comedy, if you're a fan of Bryan Callen and a fan of overall improving yourself, which I'm sure you are, you wouldn't be listening to this show, then please enjoy this conversation that I was able to have with Bryan Callen, [00:01:02] Travis Chappell: What's going on everybody welcome back to another episode of Travis Makes Friends. Today I'm making friends with the one and only Bryan Callen. Bryan what's up? Welcome to the show. [00:01:10] Bryan Callen: It's good to be here and it's good to be your friend. I look forward to working on our friendship over the next hour, there's nothing I enjoy more than create an intimacy with another man in a sky-blue shirt with that kind of a beard and a barrel chest.[00:01:22] Travis Chappell: I knew that was the type of person that, that you are.[00:01:24] Bryan Callen: You damn right Friendship's interesting, isn't it? It's like, I was thinking about that. I think you connect, men connect on two different ways and then they connect one in how much they laugh with each other.[00:01:34] You know, that's a bonding experience, but also probably you connect when you're doing something difficult together. War, totally. Military shit. Yeah. You know, being on a, the struggle, same team. The struggle, the, the shit work. Yeah. You know, when you're somewhere you don't want to be, but you're suffering together.[00:01:52] That shit creates a bond. [00:01:53] Travis Chappell: Yeah. It was two, three months ago. I'm basically, at this point, fully recovered. A couple friends of mine, and I did a 38-mile run, from midnight to 9:00 AM took me almost nine hours. And that's exactly what happened. But what are you talking about is like that?[00:02:09] Well, why did we do this? You know what? Who got us into this fuckery to begin with? And I was not very well trained for it. as you can tell, I'm a fairly bulky person. I was, I didn't have any business doing long distance. My toenail just fell off. [00:02:21] Bryan Callen: Nobody has any, nobody has any business running 38 miles, like 26 miles.[00:02:25] Life it's too short to run. 26. Hey, let's tack on another 12. Anybody want to run another 12? Was 26 not enough?[00:02:33] Travis Chappell: Answer was no. And the answer was yes being enough.[00:02:35] Bryan Callen: The story of the marathon was he dies at the end. He ran 26 pounds and tell him the Spartans were coming or whoever, and he fucking died.[00:02:43] You wanna do another 12? [00:02:45] Travis Chappell: For some reason, and specifically, that's what dudes do.[00:02:48] Bryan Callen: I had a guy who, he was swam from Catalina Island to Santa Monica. Now Catalina Island is out. And just, just so you know, there are, that's where the big gray whites hang out. That's where the 22 footers hang out.[00:03:01] That's where they're all just, you know, swimming around, eating sea lions, elephant seals, whatever the fuck they eat out there. And he swam. He started at 11:00 PM so he is like, I'm gonna swim at. And swam from 11:00 PM and got there at 7:00 AM and then he goes, would love to get you in the water with me sometime.[00:03:19] [00:03:19] Bryan Callen: Hey bro. Hey bro. I'll be in the boat and it better be a big boat and I'll be in a, in a warm poncho with donuts and fucking cocoa going through and stuff like this. You got it. You got it. And if it's at night, I won't be, yeah, I'll be nag And I'll wake up at seven maybe with the sun.[00:03:40] Groggy. Fucking get outta here. Get outta here with your long swim. [00:03:45] Travis Chappell: Oh dude, it's so funny, that men tend to be that way. I do want to go back in time and build a little bit of context before we jump into some other things here. You have a fascinating story and I didn't even know everything about it until I was doing a lot of prep work for this.[00:03:58] I. And I was like, Jesus Christ, dude. How many countries have you lived in? Yeah. How many places have you been to? So, for people who don't know, you were born in the Philippines. And I'm not even gonna try to piece the puzzle together from there. Can you take us back then? [00:04:10] Bryan Callen: Calcutta in India, then we moved to Bombay.[00:04:14] Which is now Mumbai in India, and then Lebanon, and then Pakistan, then Lebanon again, and the war broke out. Even as a kid, I saw that country change under war. It was only six months. I saw we were gonna buy a house or move into a house, and we weren't, we weren't able to, you know, I just saw everything change, you know?[00:04:33] Yeah. And then, we were evacuated to Greece [00:04:36] Travis Chappell: Just military family?[00:04:37] Bryan Callen: Banking. I mean, you know, everybody said, oh, you dead work for the CIA who knows? Hey, listen, you keep waking up free every morning. He'll do what he does. All right?[00:04:44] And then we moved from Greece to Saudi Arabia.[00:04:47] Now my parents stayed in Saudi Arabia and then they were in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, different parts of the Middle East. And I, went to boarding school in Massachusetts, cuz you couldn't go to high school in Saudi Arabia. Back then it was foreigners couldn't go. Really? So, school ended by eighth grade. Wow.[00:05:00] So all of us had to be shipped off. Yeah. You had a choice between Switzerland or you know, or the United States. It was such an international school, so everybody just kind of, it was a diaspora. We would just, you know, so for me, saying hello and goodbye constantly Was chaos.[00:05:14] And maybe even a little traumatic-[00:05:15] Travis Chappell: So, you went to MA Massachusetts when you were 14? [00:05:17] Bryan Callen: Yeah. [00:05:17] Travis Chappell: Was this the first time you were in the States? [00:05:19] Bryan Callen: Yes. I'd visited, but only like two weeks at a time. [00:05:21] Travis Chappell: But your parents were from the States or? [00:05:23] Bryan Callen: No, my parents were from the States.[00:05:24] Travis Chappell: Okay, so you spoke English. It was still, [00:05:26] Bryan Callen: Yeah. English is my first language. Yeah. So, I, I didn't know how to add, like, do little things like I'd never watched tv, like American tv. I didn't know much about sports. I never watched, I didn't have a team. Yeah. I didn't know how to address an envelope.[00:05:38] Little weird shit like that. And when you're moved around constantly like that, even in the middle of the year, you miss chunks of your education. You really do [00:05:46] Travis Chappell: These knowledge gaps. [00:05:47] You don't take grammar. Like grammar. They forgot. [00:05:50] Bryan Callen: You don't know. There's just all kinds of shit that happens, man, and, and I think when you're a kid like me who suffered from a form of ADHD, you know, they didn't diagnose it back then.[00:05:59] Travis Chappell: But certainly, I think the stress and the lack of consist. Didn't help a kid with my brain. You know, and, but god bless, thank God cuz my compensation was to be funny I was gonna ask, is that, do you look kind of at that time in your life as like a neutral? Did it give you an advantage to give you a disadvantage?[00:06:19] Bryan Callen: I think any, any kind of struggle if you are taught how to navigate it, if you have support from an adult. You can't throw a child into, you know, chaos without a real love and support parents. Fathers and mother. Disaster. But I think, you know, I think it was Niche who said, for my children I wish nothing but loss and depravity because it's, it's only the blessed, you know, or so, you know, there there is that idea.[00:06:46] Whatever you go through, you'll be thankful for it. And if you're not, you have to orchestrate your life so that you are thankful for it. But I certainly would never change it [00:06:53] Travis Chappell: The opposite of victimhood. [00:06:55] Bryan Callen: Yeah. But my sister was not that way. My sister lived that way, but she- did. it didn't affect her the same way it did me.[00:07:00] I don't know why. Who knows? My sister is very stable, very kind of like feet on the ground and I was born with a, an imagination. And, you know, and so who knows what I would've been she be maybe, I don't know how much of it is nurture and how much of it is nature. [00:07:12] Travis Chappell: Sure. Yeah. That's kind of the question, right?[00:07:13] It's like the psychology behind that where your sister basically goes the opposite way. Yeah. And just, and seeks the stability that she didn't. and then you just kind of embraced the chaos [00:07:23] Travis Chappell: and continued in it. [00:07:24] Bryan Callen: My father is, she's more like my father. My father could live in all those countries and never speak a word in the language, which is baffling to me.[00:07:30] My mother would go there and immerse herself in the culture and learn the language. She speaks Arabic, French, Spanish, you know, the, these were the things Italian, she put herself in those. She spoke Urdu. she really worked at not only speaking the language, but making sure that, we as children were surrounded by the people of that country and ate that food.[00:07:49] We didn't eat American food. Yeah. My mother was like, I'm gonna eat what the Pakistanis eat. I'm gonna eat what the Indians eat. I'm gonna eat what the Filipinos eat. I'm gonna eat what the Greeks eat. So, and my father, to his credit, understood the value of that. [00:08:00] Travis Chappell: Yeah. Was she working as well?[00:08:02] Bryan Callen: No, she was just raising us.[00:08:03] Travis Chappell: Okay. But dad was just kind of this elusive job career. [00:08:07] Bryan Callen: Always gone. Always gone. You know, gone. And then, but, but my father deserves credit because I knew he cared about me. Yeah. More than anything else. Yeah. That was always what was instilled. So even though he was gone, And the irony is I'm gone a lot too.[00:08:21] Right. I was gonna say. I'm, I don't know. It's, it's tough because, um, comedians will tell you that it's, it's tough. You miss a lot. Listen, it's only on the weekends. And I, and I get to make people laugh, so. [00:08:32] [00:08:32] Travis Chappell: Well, it's also Monday at 10:00 AM and You’re home with their family.[00:08:37] There's a lot of, I don't know, that's a conversation I've had a lot recently with my wife. You know, we have two kids. I'm 30, she's about to be 30. And we're traveling a lot constantly for work and stuff. And it hits you harder when your kids are like, you know, when your kids get old enough to start asking you, you know, like, Hey, why are you leaving?[00:08:54] Travis Chappell: Or where are you going? You know, it's like, but we try to at least explain to them, you know, like, I'm doing this so that we can have this version of life that most people don't ever get to. That's right. Experience. That's right. And because I don't like to settle. And I think that there's a lot of value in that as well.[00:09:09] Bryan Callen: There's a huge amount of value in that because you're setting an example for your children of excellence. And I think you have to live your, your life. I think when you use your children as an excuse not to live your life, I think that's a huge Fuck you. Totally. I think that's, I, it's a disservice. I don't agree with as parent.[00:09:21] Yeah. So, then I suppose you're there, but if your children understand that you're- you love them and that you're setting an example. I think there's a great deal of value in that. I don't know. Every child is different and every situation is different, but [00:09:34] Travis Chappell: As long as you get the main things across of like, I love you, care for you, and I do these things [00:09:39] Bryan Callen: Well, truth, you know?[00:09:40] I mean, you wanna do this? I realized that I hated acting. I hate it. I don't like the process. I don't like it. Yeah. and I worked so hard at being good at it for years, and then when I finally realized I don't like this, I'm just gonna do standup. That's where I really feel alive.[00:09:58] That's the best feeling in the world when I get to write my own stuff. And wrestle with being original and then put it up on stage. Yeah. There's nothing like that. I don't miss acting even a little bit. Really? [00:10:09] Travis Chappell: That's funny. How long did it take you realize that? [00:10:11] Bryan Callen: 50 fucking years, man. I, didn't accept.[00:10:14] Until I was 53. I mean, it's unbelievable. It's fucking amazing how you get older and you're like it. It takes me, the frustrating thing about life is -, at least for me, I'm such a slow learner. I've been wrong more than I've been. Right? By far. It's [00:10:28] humbling. [00:10:28] Travis Chappell: I was listening to an interview, did I think it was recent, and you were mentioning how Joe Rogan was called you or something and said he was gonna quit acting, and at the time it [00:10:38] kind of blew your mind.[00:10:39] Bryan Callen: Yeah, Joe was always ahead of the curve that way that motherfucker could, he would just, he was always telling me to just stop for as long as I can remember. He's like, fucking stop acting. Fucking do standup, dude. [00:10:49] Travis Chappell: I mean, back then though, like having a sitcom and like there was no YouTube, there's no-[00:10:54] Bryan Callen: I know he saw in me that I wasn't that guy.[00:10:57] He saw that I was a comic. You know, I just never fucking- if I had listened to Joe, like, this is a weird thing to say. I've never really said it, but if, I think if I had listened to him, like really listened to what he said about just focusing on standup and being my own person, Joe had to be his own person. Joe grew up without a dad, so Joe had to, he had to be his own person.[00:11:19] The world, without going into detail at nine years old for Joe, the world got became a very dangerous place, and he realized that the only person he could rely on was himself. I never had that realization. I never had that. I always had a whole infrastructure of family I should rely on. That's not a service cuz you, it allows you to bullshit yourself for a long time.[00:11:39] Travis Chappell: Kind of faith in the system instead of faith in yourself. [00:11:41] Bryan Callen: Yeah. It allows you to kind of like it, it allows you to not grow up all the way. And I don't think you grow up, you grow up completely when you realize there's that Instagram thing where the woman, I don't know who she was, she was like, nobody's coming.[00:11:53] No one's coming. Nobody's coming. This is you, man. You stand on your own two feet. The people that I've seen that really do great things realize that very early on, and it came from some kind of trauma, which goes back to what I'm saying about if you understand how to navigate loss or navigate, chaos, trauma that way lies the gold.[00:12:13] Sure. I don't think comfort necessarily makes for a dynamic human being. [00:12:19] Travis Chappell: Yeah. Or strong people with real values. [00:12:23] Bryan Callen: Yeah. This is, nothing new that we're saying, but, you know, but I, understand it deeply. [00:12:27] Travis Chappell: How do you think of that when it comes to parenting? This is like one of the biggest dichotomies for me as a dad. Cuz as a dad, you, you want to give your kids everything, but in giving them everything, you're taking away a lot of things from them. I think like it's not a good thing to be a shitty dad so that they have trauma to work through that makes them stronger, right? [00:12:44] Bryan Callen: I mean like, yeah. But you know, Newt Gingrich was on Jordan Peterson's podcast and he said something to the effect of, I come from a generation, the last two generations are of parents who believe that their kids have to like them.[00:12:56] My mother did not raise us that way, and he used a couple examples of people, and it's true. I'm not your fucking friend. I'm your parent, and so I'm gonna make you do shit That sucks. My buddy does this. He says to his kids and his three kids are crushing it, and he. They're like, no. And he's like, I love you enough to be harder on you than the things you're gonna face. So, do it. And so, in my opinion, again, it goes back to I'm here. I love you. I'm your rock. I'll never go anywhere. But you're gonna do the things I tell you to do. You're gonna finish things. You started, you're gonna get good at something. Yeah. I say that to my son, my daughter.[00:13:36] I, I need, no, my daughter, I don't need any motivation for that. That gal, she's 14 and she's just like, I wanna be a scientist as an engineer. I wanna be a singer, I wanna be a tennis player. I wanna be 50,000. And she's suing 'em all. And it's like, gee, I, I, and, and she talks about, Now I won't get into a college.[00:13:52] I'm like, ah, you're 14. Don't, she's not allowed to talk about college. I, I lose my mind. I go, I don't wanna hear about college. Okay, how about having a little fun little joy in your life? [00:14:01] Travis Chappell: You're like, you're barely not a kid anymore. [00:14:02] Bryan Callen: Yeah, dude. She's type A man, type A competitive. Like if it's not a competition, she doesn’t wanna do it.[00:14:07] She gets it from her mother, she gets it from my dad. It's all good. So, I don't have to worry about that girl at all. She's a monster in a good way. [00:14:13] My son is exactly like me. Escape Artist, Houdini, fucking Houdini. It's like, so I got to crack the whip I got to crack the whip and he'll come in my I, my, my wrists.[00:14:24] I fell on my wrists. So right now, that my stomach is a little queasy, I had to, I'm like, that's cool. Your feelings don't matter here. Okay? This is not a democracy, this is a monarchy. I'm the king and you're giving me my fucking half hour of boxing or working out, whatever we're gonna do. But you're gonna get good at something[00:14:43] because I can see that you have the same brain that I do, which is you want to take path of least re. That's my problem. And the only reason I'm somewhat successful is because of my ego. I'm not impressed with myself, I'll tell you that much. You know? So, you look at what motivates you and it's like, I don't know.[00:15:00] Travis Chappell: Yeah. That's super interesting that you would, because from a third-party objective standpoint, it would seem like you are the person that. Kind of strives for excellence all the time. All the time, and pushes yourself.[00:15:10] Bryan Callen: I mean, I couldn't bear not being good. It's an alpha mentality. Sure, sure. I, I hate that alpha, beta shit, but I, but I would always come into, like, if it was a wrestling room or it was a, whatever it was, I was like, well, I can't feed JV I got to be Varsity.[00:15:24] Right? I got to be, I got to be the guy they're talking about. No matter what the fuck happens, I got to figure out a.[00:15:31] Travis Chappell: To be in the conversation[00:15:32] Bryan Callen: No matter what. Even with boxing, when I started boxing, like I was too old and I was getting hit too much. I was getting dizzy, but Wayne McCulloch was like, you're such a fighter cause in my mind I'd get hit and I'd, I would fucking obsess. Yeah. I was like, I'm gonna punch that dude. I'm gonna knock that fucking guy. And it's, it's an outrageous thing to say when you're, when you're not a, when you're 50, whatever, I was 50 years old and also not a boxer and also not a tough guy, but I know that if I had started when I was really young, I would have CTE now because Totally.[00:16:02] Yeah. Anything you do, you know, I would've had to figured out my way and I wouldn't have been as fast or strong, so I would've had to, I don't know. Who knows? And I probably would've failed. But, but I think that's a, that's a personality trait. [00:16:13] Travis Chappell: Did, you play sports growing up? [00:16:14] Bryan Callen: Yeah. [00:16:14] Travis Chappell: Okay. Which ones?[00:16:15] Bryan Callen: I was mostly a wrestler. which is a nightmare. [00:16:17] Travis Chappell: Didn't pursue it much. [00:16:18] Bryan Callen: No. I went to, I went to, you know, D one school to wrestle. I went to American University and then I think I went to Dan Gable's wrestling camp in Iowa. And if anybody knows about that, it's a nightmare. It's a fucking nightmare.[00:16:29] They train you, they train you, quote unquote, like a champion. And I, and I remember I went to college and I saw one of the kids walking and he had. He was like a hundred and he was probably a hundred and in the 162 pound whatever, but just thick as shit. Probably walked around at one 90. Yeah. And I could see his ears and he was like a senior and he was walking like this, his body looked up and I was just like, and I, and I thought to myself, I could see the suffering on his body. Yeah. And I knew what the fuck it was gonna be. I knew I was gonna be waking up at 5:30 in the morning running sprints for an hour. I knew I'd be wrestling twice a day.[00:17:00] And I, and I, and I knew I'd be sucking. And I, I knew what that pain was and I looked at him and I was like, at the end of this, what's gonna happen? I'm gonna be able to shoot a double leg really well and do those things. Now, what I should have said to myself was, if I can get through four years of a D1 program, and American wasn't a big D1 program, if I can get through four years of any program, wrestling program in college, it would've been amazing.[00:17:23] It would've been in every way. All the benefits that come from that are, are intangible. You can't explain it. So, my regret, I, oh, I have one regret, and that's not wrestling in college, but what I did and said is I, I got into kickboxing and you know Taekwondo. Because I saw these guys punching each other and kicking each other and I was like, I wanna learn how to do that. [00:17:40] Travis Chappell: Where was the aspiration for like comedy and acting and all that stuff? [00:17:44] Bryan Callen: I just, the only thing I was good at, I wasn't good at like martial arts. [00:17:47] Travis Chappell: So, you did it immediately, like college?[00:17:48] Bryan Callen: I was never gonna be a great at college, but it wasn't gonna be a good wrestler if I'd gone to American no matter what I did.[00:17:53] I bet you I would've been too weak. [00:17:54] Travis Chappell: Well, what were you studying at American? [00:17:56] Bryan Callen: I, I was a history major, but I mean, again, I knew early on I was never gonna be a great athlete. It's not strong enough. I'm not, not, I don't have the mentality I, maybe I had the mentality to wrestle. Again, that competitive spirit, but there were guys that were just always gonna, there was no fucking way I was gonna be-[00:18:12] Travis Chappell: On a certain level in athletics, raw talent combined with hard work beats exclusively hard work. [00:18:18] Bryan Callen: Well, I've talked to, I've talked to Ben Ascr, who doesn't believe in talent, which is, you know, he, he was obsessed with wrestling and. But I, wasn't that way and, I didn't have Ben as aspirin's mind, and I certainly was never gonna, you know, so I, I just, maybe I didn't love it enough.[00:18:32] Maybe I wasn't, maybe I was, I think I'm inherently moderate at the same time. Physically, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna train eight hours a day and Right. And then have two fake hips in two fake knees. Like Dan gable. [00:18:42] Travis Chappell: Right. Exactly. That's part of the journey. Doing stuff, learning and figuring out that, eh, maybe that's not for me. And then pivoting and moving a different direction. [00:18:48] Bryan Callen: I always say that. I always say that like, sports are important for at least men because you learn how tough you're not. [00:18:55] Yeah. Right, right, right. That's fucking [00:18:56] huge, dude. [00:18:57] Travis Chappell: Yeah. Or what you're willing to do to be, that's the thing for me is anything worth having is gonna be a struggle to get. Anything in life, [00:19:03] Bryan Callen: You'll never hear me say, man, I would've been a navy. Yeah, I know. I couldn't make it first I'd get too cold., I, I, I fucking, I get high of lack of sleep for me, man.[00:19:13] Travis Chappell: All of it. Lack of sleep thing. I would've been like, I'm out. I got to take a nap. [00:19:16] Bryan Callen: Yeah. I mean, have you've ever been around guys like Tim Kennedy or they, you know Mike Glover, you're just like, did their fucking smartest shit and they just have a different engine.[00:19:24] It's like, you're not cold. Mr. Mike, this guy Mike, uh, Ritland the other day. Ritler, I think. and he, he's, he trains police dogs and I do this series called Best of, and I had this dog, you know, kind of launch on my. But um, he was a Navy Seal. I'm in four layers in Dallas cause it was 37 degrees. He's in a fucking T-shirt rolled up and just talking to me for an hour, an hour and a half. I go, are you not cold? He goes, what? I go, you're not cold. And he goes, I don't know. I, I didn't notice it. I go, well that's why I'm a pussy. That's why you were a Navy Seal. And I'm an actor in four layers, so I'll, I'll never be happy cuz I'm ultimately not though.[00:20:03] Travis Chappell: So, when, when you were in college, was the goal acting at that point? [00:20:08] Bryan Callen: I think I wanted so badly to be liked. I think that's a huge part of, again, what drove me was not admirable. I think I just wanted to be loved and I saw, I think I saw a tennis player and all these people were all over him. I think it was Maslany or someone, and I just was like, I want to be admired like that.[00:20:32] I wanna be different. I wanna be special. I want to be the kind of person they talk about, not who's talk. I, I didn't wanna be a spectator. I wanted to be the person out there, and I got to taste that from wrestling. You, you're alone out there on that mat. And I, I had done things as a kid. I was very driven.[00:20:48] I had accomplished certain things like in judo, like little things like that, that I didn't expect to accomplish. So, I got a taste of, I will, Somehow, I could run for a long distance. I won a race. I remember when I was, uh, 12 or 11. And I beat the adults. Or 12, I don't know what I was, but 13, maybe 14.[00:21:05] Bryan Callen: But I, I ran and I, and I, couldn't understand, and I realized I finished second, and I, was like, well, I did. I had no idea. Yeah. Or when I was, I was in eighth grade and I won. This is fucking hilarious to even talk about this, but I won most athletic kid in school when I was in eighth grade. I was so shocked.[00:21:22] I was so shocked. I didn't know what they, she said, Bryan Cullen, and I didn't move, and I said to my mother, I go, I won. My mother goes, well, you're very coordinated, Cullen. Hey. Okay. I guess it was the fucking craziest thing, and I think it was eighth grade. I don't fucking. Maybe it was sixth grade, who cares?[00:21:38] But the point is I remember those feelings Yeah. Of being singled out. And I said, I want to be that over this. But then I realized the, I'm not good in anything. I, I ca I don't know what am I gonna be, what am I good at? Singling, I don't know. I was so moved by movies and I go, I want to do that. And then I saw, Robert De Niro in Raging Bull.[00:21:57] Yeah. And I saw Bruce. I listened to Springsteen songs for the first time, and I go, whatever's going on inside me when I listen to those songs, that poetry and whatever's going on inside me, going on inside of me. When I watch Robert De Niro, I didn't know who he was, transformed his body. Yeah. I was so blown away and so moved by the.[00:22:17] You know, that I, I didn't know what to do with myself. I just needed to somehow either be a part of it, create it, you know, the mystery. The mystery of is that for me, could I do that? And they just like the idea that I was gonna be a standup comic. I mean, what? Hey Bryan why, don't you try being a Senator?[00:22:40] You know, it's an out outrage. [00:22:41] Travis Chappell: It's just as outlandish. [00:22:42] Bryan Callen: Yeah. Yeah, so, so anytime you have this dream, a lot of times it's like, you know, I was talking to Adam Duritz, who's the lead singer of Counting Crows, and he said, when I was younger, I was just so desperate to be heard. And I was like, that's, that's it.[00:22:54] That's right. That's right. So maybe I was just, I was desperate to see if I could distinguish myself. I was desperate. I was desperate to see if I could be as unique as I felt. I just didn't wanna be ordinary. [00:23:09] Travis Chappell: Yeah. Why?[00:23:11] That's the question I've been asking a lot lately. Because people can grow up in the same exact situation, to the same parents in the same environment, and end up on two totally different paths. And I've tried to ask myself that question because I feel very similar in terms of there's just, I don't, I can't explain it. I don't know why. It just kind of, there's something in me that just makes me want more things. [00:23:31] Bryan Callen: Well, you're getting into, you're getting into religion here a little bit because, or philosophy, let's say, because the Why when you're young is status, power, sex, attention.[00:23:42] Dominance, whatever. It's Right. You, you just want to be the person with the resources. And you want to be the person who is got the adulation. All the guy. Yes. I think life humbles you. And I think what happens is you realize that no matter who you are, you're gonna lose all that. And that, that's a fool's errand.[00:24:01] I, I, you're excused for the trance and the spell. it casts on you as a young person, but I think that as you get to be my age, you start to realize that that's not the goal. [00:24:14] The goal is to do these things and to try to be original in your expression for its own sake. You're never more yourself than when at play.[00:24:22] I'm, I'm quoting Shiller right now that because when he said, you're never, a man is never more at himself than when at play what he was talking. When you're doing that, not, not hookers and an 8-ball, you know, but when you're doing that, that what you would do for its own sake, something you would do for free.[00:24:41] Sure. Right? [00:24:42] And so then you start to, the, goal is to let go of yourself, uh, in a way to prepare for your own inevitable demise and, and, ultimate extinction, your death. I want to, as Socrates said, I want to treat my own body and my own appetites with a quiet contemp. I don't want to be attached to any sensation.[00:25:02] Maybe I'm getting closer to the idea of what God is or certainly being closer to that which I cannot measure, and that which is much larger than myself. and I don't have to define it. In fact, in many religions it would be heretical to try to define it, right? It's why the Jews and the, the, the Muslims don't have.[00:25:21] You know, saints and, and, you know, iconography and things in there, in their temples and in their mosques, because that would be considered the worship of false gods. Right? [00:25:31] And, and I think maybe the greatest lesson in the, in at least the Judeo-Christian ethic is don't worship false gods. The Israelites were constantly being punished.[00:25:45] For worshiping false gods, including the fact that they were like, we need a leader. And God was like, I gave you the 10 Commandments. I'm your leader. Yeah. Really? Okay. That's what you guys wanna do. Fuck off. And he gave 'em one leader after another and never worked. But there, there are lessons in that, the Book of Kings, the book of judges and stuff like that, that that's literally the whole Jewish Bible, or at least the Old Testament I should say.[00:26:04] It's like just that lesson of you guys keeps looking for the answers over here where a. lives as opposed to the [00:26:13] Travis Chappell: Things that you can consciously conceive. [00:26:15] Bryan Callen: Yeah. It's, it's an interesting, it's a philosophy or a faith or a Yeah. A, a system of beliefs that I'm very intrigued by.[00:26:23] Yes. As we get older, because you can, you can read philosophy like, you know, every time I talk to you like, Silicon Valley guy, Just, there are a lot of people I know who are into longevity. A lot of guys my age who are into longevity, you know what I mean? They wanna say, yeah, bro, they want a bio hack so they can live fucking till they're 150[00:26:42] So they can look at themselves in the mirror when their skin is, when they look like a fucking Halloween porch decoration. And they want to go. I need another 50 years. You know? Okay. I look 25, 250. I guess I'd become a master pianist and guitarist. I don't know what the fuck I, I understand the impulse to live forever.[00:27:01] I want to too. But that love of oneself is a form of idolatry. It doesn't really, [00:27:08] Travis Chappell: It tends to be with people who are the least religious. [00:27:11] Bryan Callen: Well, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Is that you're gonna, you're gonna get religious about something else. Sure. And so, every time I talk to the Silicon Valley people, you talk to 'em about meditation or even prayer, whatever that is.[00:27:22] The, the first question they, they ask is, has, does that boost your productivity? What's that on a percentage scale, what would you say? Shut the fuck. [00:27:30] Bryan Callen: Shut up you, [00:27:32] I don't care about you, shouldn't care about you. I eat a certain way. I, I intermittent fast. I don't give a fuck.[00:27:41] I wanna die. [00:27:42] Those are the people I admire. [00:27:44] Martin Luther King and Gandhi and Malcolm X and Jesus Christ, and all the people, that admire and the Buddha, they weren't like, I have abs actually. because what I'm doing now is I'm intermittent fasting. I'm taking this drug there, tends to lengthen my ...,[00:27:57] you can't stand it. [00:28:02] Get the fuck outta here. [00:28:04] A bus is gonna hit you. Yeah. You're gonna fucking die. And you might beat me by a year, but I doubt it, by the way, you fucking hack you, bio hacker. [00:28:15] Travis Chappell: No, that is, that is the crazy thing. Not to get to somber or serious, but my, one of my best friends when growing up, his mom was in mid-fifties last week, two weeks ago, got in a car accident and didn't make it.[00:28:26] Bryan Callen: Happens all the time, brother. [00:28:27] Travis Chappell: It was just like a, it was one of those, because. You do. you try to stay healthy, go to the gym, [00:28:31] work out. [00:28:32] Bryan Callen: And you get pancreatic cancer, but you never had a drink or cigarette in your life. That's what life is. [00:28:38] Travis Chappell: I grew up with, she was 27, 28, got a stage four stomach cancer.[00:28:42] She died, diagnosed, and she's a nurse. Super healthy. A nurse that's and passed away. like two years ago. [00:28:48] Bryan Callen: Yeah. That's called life in her twenties. And people should study how that happens and they should study how to stop that and they should use their own bodies. Guinea big. Sure. I respect all of them.[00:28:56] Sure. Just please understand. Nobody gets out of this thing alive right. [00:29:01] Travis Chappell: The great equalizer. [00:29:03] Bryan Callen: It's nothing wrong. We're trying to be as healthy as you can and optimizing, but it can't be the only thing. [00:29:07] Travis Chappell: So, on another note, I saw something you said about two questions that, that you've really tried to answer in your life, or two questions that you think matter, which is, [00:29:16] What[00:29:16] is courage and what is being a man?[00:29:19] Have you found answers to those questions and how do you think about them? [00:29:22] Bryan Callen: I did a podcast again with this guy, Mike, Mike Ritler, and he, and these dogs are, I mean, dude, a 67-pound dog Will rip you to shreds. It will rip. I don't give a shit who you are. This thing was biting through the fucking bite suit and I was like, oh my God.[00:29:39] The pressure. And I was like, well, they shut your arm off. I don't care who you are. That dog is gonna take you to the ground and you're gonna be screaming and you're done. And the lack of fear in that dog's face. But it took him three years to get that dog to that point. So even a dog that's been bred for that, you can break that dog very quickly and very easily if you're not careful.[00:29:59] Bryan Callen: And building that dog's confidence is a huge part of the technique when it comes to bite work. And I said, he goes, I've learned more about human nature. Working with dogs than anything else. And this is a guy who was a Navy Seal who was saying that I have a, I think some of it's a genetic, anomaly, which is all of us don't have the same sense of self-preservation a lot of other people do.[00:30:20] So maybe that's what it is. You're right, you're kind of born with a certain sort of lack of fear. So, there is, courage is inherent in some ways. Some people just don't have the imagination for what could go wrong. But if you hear someone like Hickson, Gracie Hickson, Gracie will tell you that fear and intelligence are very closely related and people who have no fear tend to be, there's the bravado of a fool.[00:30:43] So I don't know that I believe in courage, so to speak. I mean, you are brave when you have been taught how to navigate the situation. And I think there is something called courage to be the best you can be. I do think courage exists. I would define courage as being terrified, but taking, assuming the position anyway.[00:31:04] And so that would be the idea that I can, but that would be something like sacrifice, something like self-control, which is how the Greeks define character. The reason we admire people that do that, it's not that they aren't terrified. When Nelson Mandela was sentenced to death, you could see him swallow.[00:31:23] Bryan Callen: He was terrified. He didn't show it, but he was fucking terrified he was gonna die. Nobody is brave when you lock that cage in UFC I've talked to too many badass fighters. They're always afraid. They're always terrified if that, you know, it's like, I got to fight now. Holy. This is the most uncomfortable shit GSP, the stories about him going, I don't wanna go out there, this is fucking nuts. [00:31:42] Yeah. He's a brilliant man who realized this is the dumbest shit on the planet. But he was so good and, and my buddy Andy Stump talking about being a SEAL Team six guys and being the squirrel suit guy, he, he used to hold the world record for the squirrel suit and he's like, I'm just risk averse.[00:31:57] I was just very careful. Now I think he's full of shit. He's also crazy. But, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, so, so courage is probably not, not, you know, not the Spartan, you know Greek Version of charging the hill that exists. But that might just be the idea that you're just not, you're able to not indulge in, you're standing porter at the door of your mind and not allowing any of the bad, but that's a huge part of it too.[00:32:25] Again, learning what not to think about, mastering the ability to allow only. The positive things and the positive outcomes, potential positive outcomes into your mind and keeping the other things out. That's a huge part of it. [00:32:39] Bryan Callen: And being a man, well, you know, I know what traditional masculinity is:[00:32:44] stoic provider, protector. And I agree with all that because that's inherent in us. It's not my fault. It's what, how I evolved. My aggression. I need it. My anger, I need it. My fear, I need it. My ability to prepare for a worst-case scenario, I fucking need it. Cuz the world is a war. It's not a community, it's not how I think.[00:33:08] Okay. [00:33:09] And so there is that inside of all of us as men, but you don't measure strength with one metric who can lift the most weight? the NFL the Stock Market you measure strength with in many different metrics. How creative are you? There are people that are, can't do one pushup, but they can create beauty for its own sake, and it's what we all point to.[00:33:30] I don't know that Steve Jobs had abs. I don't know what Steve Jobs; Fran time was in CrossFit. Okay. And I don't think anybody gives a fuck. He was incredibly creative. You know, Isaac Mizrahi is gay. As it gets, I don't wanna live in a world without Isaac Mizrahi. I don't wanna live in a world like that.[00:33:46] Like that Chechenia where they kill gay people. Cuz they're so fucking, cuz that that fucking guy is so dumb. He doesn't understand what people who are different provide a. Doesn't realize that people who are creative, who might love differently or think differently, have other strengths that make your culture strong, make your culture creative.[00:34:07] That's the irony of, of measuring strength with when you measure strength with one metric, which is the men who have the biggest club or the biggest guns, you get Somalia. You get Afghanistan the chaos of a Somalia. I'm not talking about their cultures, I'm not talking about their people.[00:34:21] Bryan Callen: Sure, sure. I'm talking about the, the chaos countries became when men rule everything with a gun, fuck off. It makes you weak. That's the irony. [00:34:30] Travis Chappell: Which is another thing that makes America so awesome. [00:34:33] Bryan Callen: That's right. that's why. It's also why there's nothing left a Sparta, but some shards of clay, some pottery and Athens has left a legacy of incredible literature and philosophy and everything.[00:34:45] Travis Chappell: Yeah. I find, [00:34:46] There are a few common denominators with, you know, done over 800 episodes of show, interviewed hundreds of really successful and smart people. And one of the things that I find is kind of a common denominator between all of those people is the ability to overcome rejection.[00:35:00] And, we're kind of talking about this a little bit earlier, but I've did door-to-door sales for multitude of years and I'm very familiar with rejection myself. And I would say that of all things that's probably. The most direct feedback in terms of rejection and if there were one thing that I would say is even a step further than doing just straight up a hundred percent commission door to door sales, it would be acting in standup comedy.[00:35:24] How do you view rejection and are like, is there a structure or a system through which you help yourself overcome those things and keep moving on to the success? [00:35:33] Bryan Callen: It's just built into the model. I mean, it's just built into the model. It's like saying, I, I want to train in MMA and I fucking, I got knocked out.[00:35:40] I hurt my nose, you know, I'm sore. My back is sore. I'm not, I'm not, ma-, I didn't make a hundred million dollars this year and I'm not gonna work really hard at my jiu-jitsu. That's right. Motherfucker, you're gonna be poor with a roommate in your thirties, but that's not, that's all built into the model.[00:35:59] You wanna be an actor? Cool. You wanna be a standup? I'll see you in 10 years. And then you're still not gonna make it. So, it's just part of the thing. You just follow your, it, it's not a rational choice. Yeah. The rejection has nothing to do with it. I got seven yeses in TW in 30 years. Seven significant yeses.[00:36:18] and the rest were No's I'm not joking, [00:36:21] Travis Chappell: But for like roles you're talking about. [00:36:22] Bryan Callen: Yeah. seven things worked out. [00:36:24] Travis Chappell: Out of how many shots? [00:36:25] In 30 years? I mean in 30 years. Thousands. Yeah. It's my baby. I apologize. Silence child! I don't stand for that.[00:36:33] Bryan Callen: I run my house with an iron fist. All right. He's gonna have some baby cuz he is 10 months like nah, Yeah. My son will be a king. He will be separated from his mother. You have one more month. Learn how to eat gruel from a bowl. Sleep in a cold marble slab and understand that the only thing, the only true friend, the only true constant he can rely on is pain.[00:36:59] Pain and Solitude, my son, sorry [00:37:03] guys. Sorry. [00:37:04] Manhattan Beach, [00:37:06] With lots of cuddles. [00:37:07] Travis Chappell: So, you've also done these kind of like guest roles on 30 shows. [00:37:13] Bryan Callen: Yeah. Everything I said yes to everything. I'm a whore. [00:37:15] What were some of them that you think you would've made a great regular on?[00:37:19] Travis Chappell: Or that you wish you could've? [00:37:20] Bryan Callen: Everything. Everything. You know you're asking me. I think I'm, I think I should, I'm amazing. Everything. Yeah, of course. I mean, you have to think that as an actor, it's like, not me. Yeah. Fuck. You don't want, you want, you want medium. You don't want medium and wrinkled. What the fuck?[00:37:37] And that, that's the other thing that's humbling. He's like, you see yourself and you're like, I don't think I've, I'd cast me, me either, unless I was casting super regular guy, super average dude. Middle of the Rose Guy. 5 11, 1 70, but short femur bones, so he looks shorter. [00:37:53] Travis Chappell: Whatever. That's on the casting call. There's. A lot of those people out there, [00:37:57] I would choose you over me. You're a much better-looking guy. I'd be like, get the guy with the fucking hair. And he's bigger and well, why would you get the fucking that guy over there, it’s like, I had this joke of my standup and it was true. If I picked a pocket in a parade, you know, if I picked your pocket in a parade, you wouldn't know how to describe me to the cops.[00:38:15] Bryan Callen: They, they wouldn't have anything going. He was medium, brown hair, white. [00:38:21] Travis Chappell: That sketch artist would've a tall order. [00:38:23] Oh, every guy. Let's start with an oval face and fucking two dots for eyes. That's, by the way, my special man tears just dropped YouTube. It's free. [00:38:34] Travis Chappell: Oh man. Is there, one that comes to mind that was like really fun or? [00:38:37] Bryan Callen: Yeah, they were all fun. But you know, again, the reason I'm not crazy about acting was only because, um, it was more the people I get to work with. It's the bonding experience. Yeah. You know, I just did, uh, a movie. My buddy Kevin Max movie, McIntyre, McNamara's movie.[00:38:52] I think it's gonna be great with, Amanda Clayton and uh, Mark O'Brien. Really great. Great actors and, but I get to work with my buddy Eric Griffin and, Jimmy Schubert. Hilarious motherfuckers, hilarious comics. Smart as shit. That is so fun. Yeah. Just to be on set. And then Kevin is my boy too, so we're just all hanging out and it's a beautiful thing.[00:39:11] So the, it's the acting gets in the way. Even like people like Paul Gati, like we were doing Hangover two and he had. Or nominated for, an Emmy. I think he won it, but for, and he was just like, this is so much more fun. I'm walking around seven. Everybody's like getting character. It's like, ah, you know, the acting gets in the way.[00:39:28] I think he said that I'm quoting him. I maybe he didn't. Sorry, Paul, but you know, I remember, I never forgot that. I was like, it was this great actor who's, you know, it is what it is. [00:39:37] Travis Chappell: If you, if you meet somebody out on the street and they're like, I know you from something, what are the first things that you tell them that they might [00:39:43] know?[00:39:43] the Hangover it, you know, the Joe Rogan podcast. I, it's fucking amazing. Um, [00:39:48] Travis Chappell: That is pretty incredible that people would know you from Joe Rogan. [00:39:51] Bryan Callen: That's how big his podcast is. you never know these things. how I met your mother, everything. All that stuff. I don't know.[00:39:58] The Goldbergs, he's the coach, you know? Yeah. All that. Yeah.[00:40:04] Travis Chappell: First credit on IMDB that we looked at today is playing Joe Rogan's brother on News radio. And you throw him through a window. Yeah. Cue clip. How did, how did that come about? Is this, was this like [00:40:14] pre-friendship post? [00:40:15] Bryan Callen: No, he had done Mad TV and, and, we just got along, man, because the other actors didn't really know what to do with this really muscular guy who was very kind of standoffish.[00:40:24] He was just a little bit like, what the fuck am I doing here? Yeah. But he was a comic and he, he was, you know, he had, he had his armor up and I just saw it right away. And I just liked him. Cause he was in the martial arts Iowa too. We were into Jiu-Jitsu this new thing called Brazilian Jujitsu [00:40:38] Travis Chappell: I would say that was before anybody.[00:40:39] Bryan Callen: We were like occupied. We just like, we were just obsessed with it. And, he was in, he was a Taekwondo guy. Me too. And, you know. Yeah. But, you know, and, and, uh, you know, all that stuff. So, so we were young guys. Yeah. And we looked a little bit alike, you know. Don't know, we just hit it [00:40:54] off, man.[00:40:54] Travis Chappell: With, with like a role like that, is that something the producer asked or was Joe [00:40:58] like, [00:40:58] Bryan Callen: No. Really bullied me in. It's like he can played my brother, he's the best. Fuck I was in New York. And he, he goes, come to LA, you're coming. I was like, awesome. And it was, it was so much fun. [00:41:08] Travis Chappell: And that was, that was legitimately your first credit on, on I'm to be like, that was your first thing that you did.[00:41:13] Bryan Callen: No, I'd done a soap opera. I'd done Mad TV before and Mad tv. I had done that for two years. [00:41:16] Are you in standup at that point? [00:41:19] yes. I started doing standup before MAD tv, and then when I got Mad tv, when I would come home to New York, I would do some standup.[00:41:26] But for the most part, I stopped doing standup, for five years. [00:41:30] Travis Chappell: But back then, what wasn't the overall kind of idea? Like you do stand-up so that you [00:41:35] can get on tv? [00:41:36] Yes, yes. And make millions of dollars and have a cushy life. And get royalties from your sitcoms [00:41:41] I[00:41:42] Bryan Callen: swear to God, most of my career was I just wanted to date beautiful women and eat really well.[00:41:47] Literally. I was like, I wanna, you know, I wanna be a famous actor so I. so I can marry a 10. And eat at the best restaurants and drink the best wine. That's how superficial I was. Everything was a crime. I just wanted that beautiful house and I wanted to be successful. And success was a cool car.[00:42:06] Uh, your beautiful wife and, or, you know, our, our beautiful girlfriend and eating. I if you strip it down, it's embarrassing to say that, but I mean, I always had the imagination of wanting to be a great artist, so I'm being a little bit dramatic. Obviously, that's not true.[00:42:22] I wanted to be Robertson DeNiro sure. [00:42:24] Travis Chappell: Well, there's lots of ways to eat well, and -[00:42:26] I take all of that back. I take it all that because actually, never mind. This is where I say shit, and I'm like, that's not true. The, the truth is, I wanted to be a great artist. I wanted to be a great actor.[00:42:38] Bryan Callen: I wanted to be Robert Deniro on Raging Bull. I wanted to be Christopher Walken in King of New York and the Deer Hunter. Those movies moved me so much, I couldn't take it. I couldn't even watch them, so I just wanted to touch that greatness. That's all I cared about. But I think what happened was I, realized, I didn't even know how to get into that.[00:42:57] I also didn't know how to do that. I didn't have that schooling. I'd gone to theater school in New York and I'd, I was in class in la but I just didn't, I, don't know, man. I just, I just started to realize that I was never going to be that brooding deep actor, and I was a jackass. I was a silly goose, and that's when I felt the most alive.[00:43:16] And I had to let go of that. I had to let go of my, I had to let go of that. Yeah. I had to let go of who I was trying to be, and I was pretending to be somebody I wasn't. I also took on a persona because, for me, I didn't have any- I didn't come from anywhere. That's a big thing. A huge thing for me was I didn't come from anywhere.[00:43:36] Bryan Callen: I came from everywhere. I was moved all the time, so I didn't have any roots stories, people. I didn't come from a place, and when I would try to write, I would always write, I was always writing. I didn't have any place. I didn't know where to place it. I was fabricating everything.[00:43:56] And so my, screens play, nothing worked. [00:43:59] Travis Chappell: Trying to be who you thought you had to be to be that person [00:44:02] rather than being the expression of -[00:44:03] Bryan Callen: Right. But my mother was from Brooklyn, for the Italian side was all. and they were Italian, so that's what I, I didn't know the Irish side in Wisconsin. So, I, I latched onto this idea of being a New Yorker from New York, an Italian guy from New York.[00:44:19] I latched onto it, and then I, I made a lot of great friends in New York, so they became my, my base, but I just, I still wasn't, [00:44:29] Travis Chappell: You've, done a lot of work with Todd Phillips. How did that relationship come about? [00:44:33] Bryan Callen: He's a genius and him. He just loved this character. I did one time for him when we were, I, I was out to dinner with him and Brecken Meyer, Brecken Meyer's, an actor, and introduced me to him and I would do this Israeli porn star on stage.[00:44:47] I think I would make you nice all the way camera, get my balls, you know. [00:44:51] And he fucking loved that so much. And he just put me in old school. [00:44:55] Travis Chappell: He saw you do it on stage or? [00:44:56] Bryan Callen: Yeah, he put me in Old School as that guy and then he just loved me. And then, and then the hangover came along and, uh, he wanted me to play, uh, he put me in Bad Santa, which people don't know, but Todd Phillips rewrote from page one, bad Santa and directed it.[00:45:10] Yeah. His name's not on it, but he did that. Yes. And um, he's fucking genius. And then, uh, hangover came along this little movie cuz nobody wanted to. Old school too. They all said no to him. And he's like, really? You fucking guys are gonna say no to me? Good. This is called revenge. And he wrote the Hangover, well, I think was Scott Armstrong.[00:45:27] And Jeremy, um, can't remember his last name, but, Fucking amazing. Right. And they, they killed it. And the character initially was supposed to be from New York. A guy like Eddie, who's from Long Island, who had this wedding chap wedding chapel. And yeah. And I, on at the read, I said, I think you should be from Armenia or Lebanon or something like that.[00:45:46] I'm going to do it like this. Yeah. I can get you anything. So, he just lets me improvise. So anyway, [00:45:52] Travis Chappell: And then you can see your face and hands in the, in the Joker if [00:45:55] Bryan Callen: It's been five days in that or whatever with maybe it was three days. I don't know, with, What's his name? I knew he was gonna not Counter Reeves,[00:46:05] Travis Chappell: That'd be a crazy different Joker playing counters, playing Joker.[00:46:08] Bryan Callen: And, uh, I knew he was gonna win an Oscar, but I, I knew I saw him shooting that scene in the bus when I got there. I was like, oh, he's gonna win an Oscar. I could. It is like the fighter. The first time I saw the fighter in that opening frame, when I saw what Christian Bell was doing, I go, I was like, oh, oh my God.[00:46:21] I knew immediately. Yeah, that fast the same thing with the Joker. I was like, he, he got down 126 pounds for this. He's eating an apple a day. [00:46:29] He was 126 pounds for that. [00:46:31] Travis Chappell: Yeah, yeah. [00:46:32] Bryan Callen: Gosh. Or whatever. He was I mean, anybody's willing to put them. [00:46:36] The people like that. Yeah. Daniel Day Lewis Count, Joaquin Phoenix.[00:46:40] Bryan Callen: The people who are willing to do that to their body. Christian Bale. Yeah. Meryl Street, whatever those people, DeNiro like, I don't know what they're into. I don't know why they like that kind of masochistic process. I, I have no idea what they're getting out of that. Yeah. But whatever they're getting fine.[00:46:58] I, I am not that guy. That's never happening. I don't care enough.[00:47:01] Travis Chappell: But that's the, kind of goes back to that moment of clarity for you, right? It's like, I want to be that. But also, when you strip it down and look at everything that goes into that, it's like, actually, I don't want to do that at all. No, I'd rather be this guy.[00:47:15] Bryan Callen: Yeah. You know? I know. It's like, I like skiing. I just hate the equipment and the fucking cold. [00:47:21] Travis Chappell: What is your best advice to, you know, I'll be selfish here. A 30-year-old you.[00:47:28], Ambitious young man. [00:47:30] Bryan Callen: I mean, it depends on what you want. I think the first thing is to come to terms with what you want.[00:47:34] And I mean, honestly want, what do you honestly revere? And part of the problem is that you have children and you have people that provide for, but I would say if you wanna really get to know who you are, you get very good at one thing, get very good at, something, that's the value of Jujitsu or whatever it might be playing the guitar get really good because you'll have to face up to lots of your shortcomings.[00:47:59] You'll have to overcome your shortcomings. You'll have to learn how to speak to yourself in the right way, and then you can apply those lessons to anything. But I would also ask yourself, what are you truly motivated by being original money? What is it? And it's fine. It doesn't- be honest.[00:48:16] There's nothing wrong with being motivated., the things you can't really admit to, which is some people just wanna be famous. Some people want to be rich cuz they grew up poor and that was humiliating. [00:48:28] Humiliating to be treated like a second-class citizen. So, when they wear a beautiful watch and they drive a beautiful car, the valet and everybody else treats them with respect.[00:48:37] And if you don't understand that - you grew up with money. If you don't have a compassion for, see there are a lot of people, like a lot of women are very materialistic. My friends. Uh, I know somebody who's very material. This woman is very materialistic, but she grew up poor man. Yeah. She grew up. So, she's not materialistic.[00:48:52] She just, she hated that feeling and all this nice stuff makes her feel safe. It makes her feel like she never has to eat shit again. So, you know, it depends on what you're motivated by. But you have hustle, man. I'm not worried about you. You have hustle, you got here, you know, and, if you like talking to people, which you obviously do, and, and you learn, I think you're doing, you're doing the right thing.[00:49:18] Be patient. Consistency is more important than hard work. Consistency is, showing up every day is really the secret. Not, not just daily attendance or regular attendance. Consistent attendance, is way more important than hard work, than grinding those eight hours a day, which I don't believe in. I don't believe in discipline.[00:49:40] I don't believe in discipline. I don't believe in, I got to fucking lose weight. Okay. Good luck. You keep that. I believe in inspiration I believe in associating pleasure with whatever you're trying to do, you know? [00:49:51] Travis Chappell: Well, dude, I appreciate you coming on. I don't want to take up too much of your time. I know you got some stuff to do.[00:49:55] Last thing before we go, so the show's called Travis Makes Friends, and, we kind of switched the, the whole message because I found that the more connected we get as society as a whole, I feel like the more disconnected we are because people are working virtually, it's harder to go deep on relationships.[00:50:13] I feel like any anymore, and it's harder to find friendships as an adult when you have a bunch of stuff going on. You got kids, you got- you know, ambition. You got this thing, this project, and then you, if you're not careful, you can go your whole life and then wake up when you're 60 and go like, man, I don't really have any like real friends.[00:50:28] And I think that would be a failure on my part. And I think that a lot of people my age are probably going to be going through that without really realizing [00:50:35] Travis Chappell: it. [00:50:35] Bryan Callen: You get it more when you're in my age, men lose their connection to. And they get lonely. And I think after this or this one hour, I, I consider you my best friend and I love you more than my children.[00:50:46] And I said it out loud, and I don't give a shit who, who knows it or who hears it. Okay. You're a producer. I don't trust [00:50:54] Travis Chappell: That's a good call. Yeah, that's good call. [00:50:55] Bryan Callen: That's not even a real camera he's holding. I know. And I think there are things that live in his beard, like small sparrows and maybe even hornets.[00:51:02] I don't know. He looks like the devil. I said it. I don't give fuck, I'll be friends with him too. [00:51:08] Travis Chappell: The question is like; how do you actually go make friends? How do you recommend to other people? Go, find some friends, fill your life with relationships and like we were talking about earlier, connection, laughter, experiences.[00:51:17] Bryan Callen: Yeah. Find, find interesting people, find colorful people and know how to look for it. Create experiences that they can share. And it's not just about you can go watch a game and drink a beer, that's great and people need connection. I also think. I also think there's a spirited relationship to be had between people you disagree with and engaging in that, and also just having, yeah, I think we mark our life with the number of times we laugh and the times that, you know, the experiences that, so the, two things that are the most, the rarest commodities are adventure and intimacy.[00:51:51] And a lot of times adventure builds intimacy. So, you know, if you have to die young, but leave a good-looking corpse. You know, you said basically turn your life into a circus. And that's probably the best way to foster real relationships. [00:52:07] Travis Chappell: And really good way to wrap up this episode. Dude, thanks so much for coming on.[00:52:10] brother, before we take off, where do you want people to [00:52:12] Travis Chappell: go to find more. [00:52:13] Bryan Callen: December 1, 2, 3, and 4 I'm at Naples at the, Off the Hook Comedy Club. My special man tears just dropped on YouTube, man. Tears. Albeit in, in, uh, Fort Wayne, Indiana at the Summit Comedy Club, in January. Perfect. I don't know where else I'm gonna be.[00:52:31] Oh, in March I'll be in New York at the Sony Theater. Yeah. But, that's where I'm gonna be, man. Best of my TV show on YouTube. Just dropped, uh, my last episode, so tune in, [00:52:41] Travis Chappell: Man, Tears on YouTube. Go check out Brian's new special. I always love giving it. give it a look when, whenever you come up with new stuff, I'm always looking for new stuff from you.[00:52:51] I appreciate you coming on and, yeah, thanks for taking the time. Thanks for inviting us into your home and yeah, man, allowing us to invade for a second. We appreciate it. [00:52:56] Bryan Callen: Absolutely.