Tanner Chidester (0s):What I've seen from the people who've built billion-dollar companies or just massive companies is almost all of them, it was, it's interesting, but almost all of them started in internet marketing. Hmm. And then they make this pivot where they just get in this better vehicle that just can scale.
Travis Chappell (55s):Today I am stoked to be making friends with Tanner Chidester. What's up

Tanner Chidester (59s):Bro? What's up, man? Hey, you said the last name perfectly, by

Travis Chappell (1m 1s):The way. Hey, thank you. I've seen enough of your ads to none. Hey, I'm Tanner Chidester. Yeah,

Tanner Chidester (1m 7s):Exactly.

Travis Chappell (1m 7s):Perfect. So, it's stuck in, it stuck in my mind man. It stuck in my mind. No, I appreciate you coming on. I know this is like a super quick, you know, Vegas trip and so here we are in our little makeshift in-home studio at the moment and I've been looking forward to chatting with you for a little while. I know we have a bunch of mutual friends and stuff. The schedules and things like that haven't, haven't lined up, so I'm glad we're able to make this one happen. So for those who don't know you, we're gonna rewind the clock a bit, and I wanna get some big context here. So you were just telling me you had a big family. You have six brothers and sisters. Yeah. So seven of you total. And then you're telling me a little bit about your home life. So I want, I want the audience, to hear that as well. I wanna dive in on some of those specifics. So let's rewind the clock. Let's say nine, 10-year-old Tanner Chidester, you know, set the scene for us.

Travis Chappell (1m 51s):Where, where were, were you in life? What was happening?

Tanner Chidester (1m 53s):Yeah, so I grew up in Houston. I was born in Utah, actually. I was born in Sandy. A lot of people don't know that. Okay. I was raised LDS by a moron. My dad, you know, was the equivalent of a preacher. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hence seven kids. Yeah. My dad was equivalent to what most people consider a preacher. So he's been okay for anyone who's LD Mormon, it's a little different, but you know, it's a bishop, bishop Rick Tic presidency and stuff like that. And I had two older sisters and I had two younger brothers and then two younger sisters. So growing up, I guess you say I was kind of a strange kid because my parents were very conservative. I'd never heard a cuss word until I think I was eight or nine. Played tea parties with my sisters. So around the age, you're talking about, I was getting bullied a lot. And so one day after I realized they were bullying me, I went home to my parents around 12 years old and I said, Hey, I wanna start working out.

Tanner Chidester (2m 40s):And I told 'em some bs, but I just wanted to, I wanna kick their ass. I mean that was really, because I was done with it. Yeah, yeah. When I started working out, my parents would take me to the gym at about 5:30 AM. I'm 12. Yeah, 12. And then they dropped my sister

Travis Chappell (2m 52s):This is in Texas or in New Utah. Texas. Okay.

Tanner Chidester (2m 54s):Texas. And they dropped my sisters off at Bible study and then I'd work out and they'd pick me up, I'd go to the first period, which was the gym. And then I get a shower. So after about three months, you know, you're going through puberty and you know, you get newbie gains. People started giving me compliments and I was like, okay. That was the first time I had positive reinforcement for working through something difficult. And so that really set the stage I think for me, where I really got serious about sports because I think one, I, I enjoyed what happened, but two, I was good at it. And so really from 12 to 22, I was just all about sports. Yeah. I mean, the way I attack business now, I remember going into my sophomore season being on varsity, there's like one to three guys to make varsity the sophomore.
Tanner Chidester (3m 35s):So it was like this huge deal and I trained nine hours a day all summer. And I made the varsity and what, what sport? Football, football, football. And I still remember I would train, I was still a two-sport athlete, but I did three hours of basketball, three hours of running, three hours of lifting every day, for the whole summer. And so I just kept getting these positive reinforcements of like, if you put in the work, if you put in the work, if you put in the work, yeah. So I took that as far as I could go till I was about 22. I did get a play in division one football. I got hurt a lot. I don't think I was good enough on top of that, but I couldn't even stay healthy. And so around that time I met a guy, you might, you probably know him David Fry and you don't, okay. So he married Russell Brunson's cousin. Okay. Right. And so he comes to me and at this time I had some falling out with my parents and won't get along with that, but I had a father with my parents and I kind of stopped going to church and he really wanted me to go back to church and that's how this started.

Tanner Chidester (4m 24s):And he said, Hey look, you know, what's your goal? And I said I wanna make a bunch of money. And he's like, well that's not gonna happen with engineering. Which is what I was studying. And I had good grades, but he just laid it out for me. So he said, look, drop outta school, start going back to church and if you do then like I'll show you everything I know about business. And he built some seven-figure online businesses. So I dropped out. Pretty much everyone was against me. My girlfriend broke up with me because of it. Her mom obviously was not happy. My family, was kind of a mix. I think they were happy they didn't see you back in the Yeah. All types of, yeah. They didn't put me down, but I don't think they thought it would work. And so now I'm about 22 and for the next two years I don't really make any money, but I learn how to build funnels and how emails work and pixels and just all the kind of little things you need to know, in my opinion, to run a good business, at least online.

Tanner Chidester (5m 12s):And I finally get to a point where I say, Hey, I appreciate you, but I need to go live my life. I'm 23. So I go back up to Utah, some of my family is, and I start working as a server and doing door-to-door sales, you know, was big on that. Right. So I actually sold it to Alder. Okay. And a security competitive event. Right? Yeah. They're, they're competitors and stuff. Yeah. And, but I'm still not making money. So I'm learning, I'm doing these things and in hindsight, I think it prepared me for this moment, but at the time I just feel I'm going backward. Right. So now I'm 25 and we're actually out selling alarms and I've already been out there maybe six months. Because I went out early, I went out in February and I looked at my phone. I remember to this day I looked down, I don't know what caused it, but I looked down, I looked at my bank account and I just remember thinking, I have the same amount of money now that I had three years ago.

Tanner Chidester (5m 58s):Oof. And it was just, it just was this kind of realization, this isn't working. Right. And so that day I called my mentor, I said, look, if this if something doesn't happen soon, I gotta go back to school. Like I'm 25, man, I'm a loser. Like this isn't working. And I was embarrassed, you know? Yeah. Like, cuz I'm killing myself to try to get this thing to work, but I didn't know how. So I saw an ad on Facebook, about how to start an online fitness business. And at this time I didn't really have social media that much and I didn't, I don't even think I really got on. I just thought it was stupid. Yeah. Yeah. And I am still kind of that way. It's just what business now you kind of need it. Right. And so I clicked on this ad, I got on the call, high pressure, sold me, didn't know even high ticket sales were, I had two grand in my account. Give him everything.

Tanner Chidester (6m 39s):Put the rest on a credit card. I had to apply for one. I didn't even have a credit card. 25. Crazy. And I remember going in the program and the first three videos I watched, I'm just like, bro, I would, I do, this is just emotional fluff. Yeah. Like, I don't care. I don't, I didn't need that. I, I felt like at least, yeah. So I just asked the coach, dude, just tell me what to do, please. He goes, okay, just message people. Get 'em on a call and close 'em. And I was like, that's it. He's like, yeah. I was like, this is what I paid. Yeah. It's so stupid. And 5,000 at the time for context, anyone listening, that probably felt like a hundred thousand right now. Yeah, totally. Like it was, it was a chunk of change where I'm like, okay. I started doing it and I made 10 K in a week and I called my parents, I'm like, Hey, I figured this out. I'm gonna move home. Let me do a little bit of Fitness coaching.

Tanner Chidester (7m 18s):Yeah. Fitness coaching is like, let me pay you a little bit, but like, I'm gonna come home. So I go home and I just, I don't come outta my room for a year. I remember I would go three, or four weeks, not seeing my dad because I was so dedicated. And he would come home and I'd be asleep or I'd be working whatever. And a year later I'd done a million dollars and then all these trainers started asking me for help. That's when I got my first ClickFunnels award. Which I, you know, it still is, but at the time especially like, wow. Like, and this guy doesn't sell like business coaching. Right. It was different. And, at the

Travis Chappell (7m 44s):Time there was frankly just
Tanner Chidester (7m 45s):
Fewer people. Yeah. Won that award, right? This was this, yeah. I think five years ago it was like 2017 ish. Yeah. And I remember these trainers started lining up. I said, Hey man like I don't really like doing this. You know, I paid a couple of coaches where, you know, they scammed me or screwed me. Sure. And I have a better take on it now, you know, obviously. But yeah, it didn't work out. And I said, Hey, I don't wanna do it. But they kept asking. So finally I had about 150, $200,000 of people just on a waiting list. Like, hey, we'll pay you 10 grand. Like, you know, I'm 26. I'm like, like I gotta take this money. So I started doing it and that goes hyperbolic. That year I did 10 million and I worked even more. I mean, I just had no life, I'll be honest with you. Like I had no life.

Tanner Chidester (8m 25s):So your
Travis Chappell (8m 26s):First full year was

Tanner Chidester (8m 27s):A million? Yeah.

Travis Chappell (8m 28s):And then your second full year

Tanner Chidester (8m 30s):Or was this like three second years was 1 million to 10. You went one to 10. It was crazy. And that, that was, that was probably the hardest year I've ever had because just the jump was so massive. Yeah,

Travis Chappell (8m 40s):No

Tanner Chidester (8m 40s):Kidding. A

Travis Chappell (8m 41s):Completely different business

Tanner Chidester (8m 42s):Anatomy. Yeah. It was, it was crazy. And I mean the trainer, the trainer business just, I mean like the first month it was like 300 grand. Wow. You know? And I was like, holy shit. And then just, you know, more to play with, the margins are bigger, a little more expensive and, and it matters with that. Cause you're like, Hey, I can spend another two grand to get a customer. Right. That changes the game. So the third year we open up to what is elite Cos now, because in my head, hey, if I go general we get a little more and we did. We went to 15 million. Now I, in hindsight, I wonder if I should have done that. Hmm. But I think in

Travis Chappell (9m 14s):Generally, you can teach online.

Tanner Chidester (9m 17s):Yeah. So the same principles, just less specific to fitness. Right? Yeah. So like if I'm teaching messaging, it's not just fitness messaging, it's like different examples. And I think now in hindsight, looking back, there's pros and cons to both. But I think staying niche down long term, there's advantages to that. Easier fulfillment, easier, you know, to like scale the same thing over and over. But my mindset now of where I am, cuz I stepped outta the company about two months ago, is what I've seen from the people who've built billion dollar companies are just massive companies. Almost all of them. It was interesting. But almost all of them started in internet marketing. Hmm. And then they make this pivot where they just get in this better vehicle that just can scale.

Tanner Chidester (9m 59s):Yeah. That was actually super interesting to me because I said yeah, how'd you start? Oh yeah, I did seo. Oh yeah, I ran an ad agency. Yeah. And so I think now that I'm on the other side, I have, I have five companies I own now. And then just also consulting, you know, like tens of thousands of the clients is, it really does matter what the vehicle is. Hmm. And marketing is important, but if you can mix internet marketing type skills with a really good offer, Yes.

Travis Chappell (10m 23s):In a strong market that's growing and Yeah.

Tanner Chidester (10m 26s):Yeah. And that's where it blows up. And so that's been very interesting to see now that I'm on the other side, because at first Elite cos peaked out like one of our highest months was right under 2 million. And since that time we've been in that kind of like one to 1.5 million range. And I would get so mad because man, like why can't we scale more? Like I'm spending enough on the ads, the costs are going up. Like why optimizing? But it just gets to a point with certain offers. It's just, it's just the nature of the beast. And I think an easy way to describe it is if you are streamlining the fulfillment. And so why tech, why people get so crazy for tech is cuz it's easy to streamline with service. You get Jill who's a six, Tom who's a two, George who's a 10, you know Rob who's a three.

Tanner Chidester (11m 8s):And so the issue is not necessarily the product, it can be right. But let's say your products are as good as you can make it, they're all gonna get different results. And so therefore you don't kind of get that stacking over time or that same result, which is what creates that crazy word of mouth. That's at least my opinion. And that's why, you know, Jim launched when Mosey scaled that why I think he did so well is the least of these, the worst clients he got could still make Yeah. The 30 K in the month or whatever it was. Right. And that's what changed it for him. I think so

Travis Chappell (11m 36s):Yeah. The client results, like for somebody who's not, I mean he had a SASS business, but somebody who's not known as somebody being in SaaS, he talks a lot about product market fit. Yeah. Which he obviously worked on

Tanner Chidester (11m 48s):A lot. And I don't think he knew it was gonna get that big. Like I asked him yesterday, I like, do you know?
Travis Chappell (11m 52s):Yeah. But he, well I mean I think it's pretty, like in his story it seems clear just because it's like I was worried about being bankrupt and then six months later had crossed whatever, 3 million in sales or whatever. Yeah. And it was like when you're in the bankrupt mode, your mind isn't thinking about how can I build a billion

Tanner Chidester (12m 8s):Dollar at all? At all. You're thinking about
Travis Chappell (12m 10s):Like, how do I like not lose my entire reputation and have to like completely get rid of all of my shit and you know what I mean? Like you were, you were thinking, you're thinking about what happens tonight, not what happens in 12 years from now. Yeah. You know, you said something like earlier but I don't, I just don't wanna gloss over it. And I know I'm backtracking quite a bit here. Sure. When you were talking about when you were 12 and the first, it was the first time that you received positive recognition for putting in hard work and seeing a result happen. And when you said that, it made me think about how many people, probably the percentage of the US population and in terms of a percentage, what percent would say that they still have not had that.

Travis Chappell (12m 57s):Oh wow. Even into their thirties, their forties, their fifties, their sixties a lot. And I know from you, it came from you had a chip on your shoulder, it was like, people are making fun of me and you know, fuck those people. I'm gonna show 'em what's up. I'm gonna go work out and I'm gonna stay consistent at this thing. I'm gonna work hard even, even if it means I have to get up earlier and I gotta go to the gym before gym class, I'm gonna do it because fuck them. Do you think that you have to have something like that? Or like if you are somewhat comfortable or maybe you know, you're in a situation where people aren't making fun of you, you don't have the chip on your shoulder, maybe your parents are wealthy or, you know what I mean? Like can you create this type of artificial chip to make you, to make you want something bad enough to put in the work? Cuz I fully, fully agree that it's, it's a necessary like notch that you have to put in your confidence belt to teach you that if, if I do this I can achieve

Tanner Chidester (13m 47s):This. Yeah. I think it's rare. I'm sure there's someone out there because whenever you say never, you know, it makes one the sure true. But almost everyone I've spoken to who has been ultra successful, they have some type of story where things don't go their way or they're up against something. So the one reason I fell in love with fitness is you can see the results. So it took me three months and during those three months I'm like, man, maybe I should stop. I'm not really getting bigger. But after those three months, like consistently my muscles were growing and then people gave me that feedback. I was like, oh, so this could work in grades and girls and whatever. People just can't see it. So to your point, I think the hard thing is no one's gonna look at you and say, Travis, wow you worked so hard today. I can tell Yeah, no one sees that.

Tanner Chidester (14m 29s):But that's what's hard is I think, I think for me as a kid, getting that positive reinforcement on the workout where people could see the visible results, I, in my head it was like it clicked. I was like, oh, hmm. Like if I do this in other things, I'll get the same result. I do think it's hard to, it's like playoffs, I think it's very hard to artificially try to create something that's not there. So I had friends who were very wealthy. Yeah. And they just haven't done as well as me. And, and that's not to say that doesn't even mean the way I live life is the right way. Trust me, I'm, it's, it's the more I'm living, the more I realize it just really doesn't matter and it really has to be what you want to do. And a lot of people just don't really care. And so, but to that point they didn't do as well because what I saw is when I went to my dad and I said, dad, I need something.

Tanner Chidester (15m 16s):And he's like, nah. Like you're on your own man. Yeah. Good luck. Yeah. Those parents would give them money and I'd see 'em like they can Hey I need a hundred bucks, you know, for cookies. I remember they were like, yeah dad, I'm getting cookies. And he is like, what? A hundred bucks for cookies? And they obviously weren't for cookies. Yeah. I'm sitting there going, dude, my dad's never given me a dime. He told me at 14 I needed to get a job. He's like, oh can. I was like, can I go to the movies? He's like, well, do you have a job? I was like, no. He's like, I just can't go. And he walked off. And that was kind of my, that was kind of my upbringing. I hated him at the time, but as I got older it really taught me that no one can save me. Yeah. And I think that it made me kind of bitter but at the same time it created kind of that drive Yeah. To be successful. And even to this day, that's part, you know, sometimes people are like, Hey bro, you gotta chill.

Tanner Chidester (15m 58s):But it's part of who I am now. Yeah. Because it's that kind of drive to prove that you are worth something that you can do it. So to your question, I do think it's tough for some people cuz yeah. Like no one's gonna give you that. And, and especially when it comes to business or music or like things that are intangible, no one's going to again, like look at you say

Travis Chappell (16m 18s):That

Tanner Chidester (16m 18s):Work is so hard, you deserve it. Yeah. And that's the hard

Travis Chappell (16m 21s):Part. Here's everything you want on a silver

Tanner Chidester (16m 22s):Platform. Yeah. And so I think, once I got it in fitness, it was easier to transition to business and other things that people couldn't see because I knew it was the same principle and I didn't need that reinforcement anymore. But I, I'll be honest, as a young kid who's struggling and being bullied and has low self-confidence, I mean that did change the trajectory of my life

Travis Chappell (16m 39s):Percent. Yeah. I think that that's a necessary step in building confidence. And I don't think, I don't think that you can run into anybody with any certain level of success in life no matter what field industry, if you're talking about money or if you're measuring, it's something different. They all have a base level of confidence. Even if it's mixed with some insecurity, they are still confident about something. Right. So that shift for you was that initial like, oh, if I do what I say I'm gonna do every

Tanner Chidester (17m 6s):Day, like the results follow,

Travis Chappell (17m 7s):Even though there's pain at some point it's going to be a good thing that I did that and I'm going to be happy that I did that. Yeah. And it teaches me that I know that now I can go do that in something

Tanner Chidester (17m 19s):Else. Yeah. And I think I, I don't remember where I heard it, but they talk about you having the insecurity that you're not good enough, but you have the confidence that you can do it. And that's where that drive comes from because you believe you can do it. Which you're like, you're d you're like, can I like, can I? And I think that's a trait of very successful people because the dumbest people I know think they know everything and successful people, they know a lot, but they still realize how much they don't know. And I, I really learned that specifically when I was doing petroleum engineering. I was taking, I think it was six math, six math, excuse me, above Cal three. Hmm. And I'm, I was like sitting there, I'm like, there's not a damn number on my worksheet.

Tanner Chidester (17m 59s):You know, that's all letters, you know, and it's supposed to be math class and, and that there, those are moments like that too where it just really, you just really, you build this conference because you've done these hard things, but then you also kind of get humbled a little bit and you realize you're human and how much you don't know. And that, I think that's kind of what breeds that success because you kind of realize, hey, there's all these things I don't know, but like I've done these hard things before and you almost wanna prove to yourself that you can do it because that's the reward. The money just doesn't, I can't even tell you. I just don't really care anymore. Yeah. And it's, and it kind of was sad for me for a little while because I, I mean it took me six months going through some hard stuff to figure out what I wanted to do in my life. And even now, I am, but I kind of came at peace with it where before my goal was to hit a million a month and then I hit that.

Tanner Chidester (18m 45s):And when that's your whole goal in life and you hit it, your life's over that. That's kind of tough.

Travis Chappell (18m 50s):Yeah. It's a weird point to come to. Especially because he is 31, 31, 31. So it's not like chilling now, you know what I mean? Like this is, most people's prime earning years are like 30 through 50. Yeah. You know, it's 35 to 45, maybe more condensed. So like you still have a few years to go before you're even in your prime, you know? Yeah. Net worth expansion years. And you're already at the point where you're like, oh well I don't really have to work.

Tanner Chidester (19m 20s):You know, that's a weird position to be. Well yeah. And just, and just, you know, an extra 50 k, a hundred K to the average person is a lot, but you're like, it's a

Travis Chappell (19m 27s):Life-changing. It's not
Tanner Chidester (19m 27s):Yeah. But you're like, Hey, if I replace myself and put this guy in, I pay him 30, 40 grand a month and I do nothing that's still better than, you know, doing it. Yeah. It's just, it's a weird place to be. And it does feel weird. Like I was telling you before we even went live, you know, you almost feel bad as it almost feels illegal, but you're getting these checks but you're not doing much and your team's working really hard. It feels weird.

Travis Chappell (19m 48s):Yeah. But hey, that's, I mean, that's the beauty of business

Tanner Chidester (19m 51s):Though, right? I guess I paid your dues. Right? I mean that's one thing I'm like at, at, at the end of the day I do sit there, I'm like, well I've done every job in the conference

Travis Chappell (19m 58s):And I was gonna say, your team wouldn't be working that hard. Yeah. If they didn't see you do that already. I, you know what I mean? Like them, I agree that they have to, you know, tens aren't gonna work for five. Correct. You know, so like you, you want tens working for you, then you gotta become a 10 yourself. You know? But Yeah, dude, I, I can appreciate, can appreciate where right now you're just kind of in this mode of, well I guess, we'll I guess we'll kind of take this day by day and see what comes out of it. So I know that you've kind of been purposefully seeking out advice from people who are kind of at that quote unquote next level. So for you now, is it in your goals to build like a billion dollar company?

Travis Chappell (20m 38s):Like where are you, where are you thinking you're going to end up?

Tanner Chidester (20m 41s):It's like I flip flop on it. Like I'd like to, I'd like to do it to prove I could do it. Hmm. Right. But I don't know if that's a good enough reason to go down that path. Yeah. There's two sides of the coin. I mean, the harder you push in one direction then it's gonna pull you farther away from something else. And so, you know, for example, finger building a billion dollar company, it's gonna push, I mean you're going very hard in that direction. You know, it's one of the pinnacles of life that you could probably say you did. So I'm back and forth because part of me, I'm a very driven person. I like having purpose and I like having goals at the same time. Now looking back and reflecting, you know, you sacrifice a lot to even get to this point because what, the way I live now, it feels normal. But I always have to kind of be reminded like, Hey dude, like what you're doing isn't really normal.

Tanner Chidester (21m 24s):Like most people wouldn't consider that normal. Yeah. How it feels normal to me, I'm going back and forth, but I think regardless, at some point I do feel the desire I'm gonna need to do something else. I can't just chill forever. Sure. Yeah. And so right now it kind of feels nice, but I'm, I'm nearing it's about the two month mark cause I really didn't start traveling till February and it's gonna fade, you know, like anything, it gets old right? You eat, eat the same stuff, keep going to the same place as it gets old. So I think, so I've been asking questions with that in mind. Whatever I do next, I want it to be very high sailing. Yeah. Internet marketing is great and, and I think on one hand people like, they praise it too much. On the other hand, I think they talk down on it too much. I think it's one of the building blocks.

Tanner Chidester (22m 5s):Yeah. You need, but yeah, I've talked about 30 to 40 ish people at this point who've sold companies for nine or 10 figures. And the similarities have been interesting. I would say that seeing the patterns across the board is what's been the most interesting to me.

Travis Chappell (22m 18s):Yeah. What are some of those patterns?

Tanner Chidester (22m 19s):Well first I think I told you this as well, a lot of them who've sold for over a billion quickly and bootstrapped, which is even more impressive. Yes, it is. The BC game to me is just making numbers on it, it's weird. They just make stuff up. It doesn't make any sense. And so to guys like you and me, I don't under, I, I just weird. I'm like, you guys are just making shit up. This is like, here's the valuation, but like how much does it make? Yeah, okay. That doesn't make sense then because there's no money. Yeah. My valuation is lower than yours. Make more.

Travis Chappell (22m 46s):It's currently losing 30 million a year. But yeah, it's in 14 years if our numbers are running,

Tanner Chidester (22m 51s):It's so weird. It turned a profit. Yeah. It's so weird to me. And they just go on the billionaire bus. So the

Travis Chappell (22m 56s):Thing I don't like, that's

Tanner Chidester (22m 57s):The game. I think why I won't go BC is because the, the person who loses the CEO because one outta 10 work and if you're, you know, nine, one of those nine CEOs, you give five to 10 your years of your life and they're,

Travis Chappell (23m 10s):You're gone. Right. Well and you have that, I don't know dude, it's, it almost feels like a, a burden because even if you raised 200 million but you went bankrupt, it's like yeah, you had a team of, you know, 3000 people that were depending on you to figure something out and you couldn't quite piece it together before you ran outta money. And there was no way that you could get that infrastructure up. It was just like, it's irresponsible spending.

Tanner Chidester (23m 33s):Well, and you, and you have to answer to people. So it was interesting cuz yesterday, you know, someone who's very affluent and I'm good friends with, he said, people are asking like, Hey, you should run a private equity firm. We'll give you 200 million. And he's like, bro, I don't need the money. And he's like, then I have to answer to people. Yeah. He's like, the whole point of making money is to be free. And I thought that was actually very interesting. Yeah. And I, so I think to your point, going back to the guys who built billion dollars in bootstrapped is one they usually have or and girls, they usually had internet marketing background. Right. Which was interesting. I, and I saw that over and over cause a lot of people are like, oh, internet marketing. But I like it, it's actually a great way to learn the basics of business. Sure. Because you can beat people in marketing and sales, which is important once you have a good offer.

Tanner Chidester (24m 16s):But then the second thing was just zero fulfillment. So as close to zero fulfillment as possible. So the two guys specifically Justin Hartfield, who basically builds a Yelp for weed. Okay. So the fulfillment is to use our site. That was a fulfillment. There's nothing. And then the second one was Bite, which was a competitor to Invisalign. But he is like, Hey, they're, they suck at all these things. I'm just gonna go in and beat them at the game. And he did. And their class of acquisition was about five times cheaper. They had better customer support, better they have some of the best reviews I've seen anywhere. I, I don't, it's like, I don't know if they're paying them or something, but I've never seen so many good reviews for a company and then they add a better sales team. And so that's been the most interesting thing is, is in internet marketing, at least in my companies now, they make a lot of cash flow.

Tanner Chidester (24m 59s):They do. But the bottleneck is the fulfillment because that, that's what makes it so difficult to scale. And just the nature of what you're selling is its info. Right. And so it's harder. Like you can still make your case, but it's harder than like, all right, these are braces. Like okay, like this is an app. Like sure. Even Uber, it goes, it's not, it's negative right now, but we see the value. It's like, it's a, it's a cheaper taxi, right? Yeah. At least for now. I think it's starting to get too expensive. I might go back to taxi soon, but

Travis Chappell (25m 26s):It's really is

Tanner Chidester (25m 28s):I think, I think, I think they finally gotta make some money, right? I think they underpriced it and now they're going, Hey, we haven't made money in 10 years. We gotta start becoming profitable. And so I think they're actually going the other direction where,

Travis Chappell (25m 38s):And their drivers need more money. Like there's more competition

Tanner Chidester (25m 40s):Man I think. I think they're about to run into a problem where taxis like people are gonna, why don't I just use a taxi now? Right. That was the whole, that was what made it so nice is it was convenient and it was cheaper and now it's going another direction. But,

Travis Chappell (25m 53s):And, there were some, I know this is a photo rabbit trail, but recently, the quality of the cars is like, I just upgrade 'em all the time now. I just, now all the time it's, it's on it's black Orl or Lux or something. Because if I just do the regular cars, it's like, oh this, well this is, this is like a taxi. Like it's a crappy old car that's dirty. It's like, one of the reasons I used to do Uber is that it, they had a quality, they had a standard that they had set. And now like that standard's kind of going away, it's almost as expensive. It takes longer to get there than the taxi that's already sitting on the curb. You know, it's like, I don't know. I think I agree. Gone into a couple

Tanner Chidester (26m 30s):Taxis recently. Yeah, I agree. And I guess we'll see what happens. But I, but so those convos I had, that was the number one thing is just super easy to film. Even the newsletters, like they talked about, I met, I talked to the guy, the Hustle in the morning, the morning Brew Sam. Yeah. And they do good. They did good. But there's still, the issue there is they said, Hey, you gotta get all these customers and then you gotta acquire 'em cheaper and then you gotta sell stuff on the backend. And so again, it just makes it a little bit harder. There's a lot more moving parts than, you know, like I saw. I thought Beckard did such a great play where he is like, all right, all you markers and your tracking, I'll build it and he's done and he's sold it for 110 and two years. I mean that's, that's dope.

Tanner Chidester (27m 11s):Yeah. And, and it's, but the easy part is to be frank, I've used them. We don't talk to him anymore. We got set up, we talked to him for probably three, four months and then we didn't talk to him ever. And then they sent us a message, we're like, yeah, we don't need to talk to you cuz we know how to use it. Yeah. So that's, that's the beauty is if, you know, tech obviously is harder, but that's why people get so crazy for it because at the end of the day, the fulfillment is just negligible. So if you make something for a penny, sell it for a dollar. That's what I see over and over again. Economy

Travis Chappell (27m 36s):Is a
Tanner Chidester (27m 37s):Scale, but you gotta think harder because there's a lot of stuff you can do to create a lot of value. But then it's all this fulfillment. So Totally. I think after Moe's book, I don't know if you noticed this, but everyone started doing done for You Shit. Like everyone, and it sounds good on paper, but then the issue is there's all this fulfillment on the back end and app operational costs and so it's not as good as it sounds. Right. Right. So I think that's, I think that's how you have to think, what can I make that's super cheap and it's gonna be hardly any fulfillment that people will still pay a very high price for. And that's what makes

Travis Chappell (28m 7s):It's hard. Yeah. Yeah. Those economies of scale are difficult. Cuz like you have to have a lot of users and you have to build a product that's valuable to them. Product is hard, you know, especially in tech because now, like now it's like this isn't 10, 15 years ago. You know, it's like there's already millions of apps, tons of software, so many SaaS companies, you know, if you're, if you're gonna build a product that people actually use in their consistent workflow, it has to be very good. Has to be concise, it has to solve a clear problem. Yeah. And has to be something that they're willing to come back to and use over, over again. And

Tanner Chidester (28m 42s):That

Travis Chappell (28m 43s):Piece is a difficult thing to get to. Especially if you're like me and you don't have any tech

Tanner Chidester (28m 47s):Back. Well, and if you want them to switch, Yeah. That's even harder because a lot of times they don't wanna switch purely out of inconvenience. So we have a white labeled version of go high level right now. Yeah. And it does great. I mean we make great money. I love it because the clients, you can add stuff in that ad, you know, makes it a little better. So like go high level's just a software or like Click falls is just software. It's like hey, like here's ours plus all this other stuff that like, it doesn't make sense for click funnels to go high level do cuz it's a small little micro niche. Gotcha. But it's been interesting to just see we've had to put a lot of time and effort into migrations because they don't wanna move. I don't wanna fucking move all this shit. And I'm like, we, we were like this probably we'll just do it for you pre no word.

Tanner Chidester (29m 30s):Because we know that once they get in they're stuck. Right. And that's been very interesting to see. And I think that's what makes tech so good. But the hard part is that if they're using something to get them to switch it is very difficult. Very

Travis Chappell (29m 41s):Hard. Yeah. Random question for you bro. Sure. Kind of going a little bit more philosophical here, have you been accused of being arrogant in the last five years? Oh

Tanner Chidester (29m 52s):Yeah, for sure. Well, I'm sure not to my face, but I'm sure behind my bad, I actually had, especially when I was younger, I think, I don't know man, maybe I, I think especially with social media, it's tough. I think we all do it though. I, I think I see people on social media, I definitely get a conception that guy like Dick. Yeah. Like you get, you get this like, you know, preconception of how they are and then you meet in person and it's usually not that way. And I just think the farther you're away from people, you know, like, you know this guy in person, you know this person from social media, then you know, a friend of that person, you know, it gets, you just kind of do that by nature. Yeah. I especially did when I was younger and I liked fitness modeling and stuff like that. But I, I don't know, I always just thought I was really confident.

Tanner Chidester (30m 33s):Yeah. And, and maybe the way it came off that people didn't know me was that way.
Travis Chappell (30m 37s):That's more where the questions are coming from Yeah. Is how to deal with the line between arrogance and confidence because one of them is absolutely necessary and essential. Yeah. For success, for leadership, for getting married. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you have to have confidence. However, arrogance can literally be the thing that brings you down. So, you know, how do, how do, how do you think about this too? Or have you thought about these


Tanner Chidester (31m 3s):Two? No, I have a lot. I think I'm gonna quote 'em again. I, I'm, I'm gonna paraphrase this, but I, you know, Al Alex Ramzi said this right. And I really liked it. And you said something, you don't build confidence by speaking affirmations in the mirror. Each day you build a stack of undeniable proof that says you are who you say you are. And then it says outwork yourself down. And so I think for me, I think it's how you come off first off. And you know, for example, like Andrew Tate, like the way he comes off it goes very viral. And the reason it goes viral is like you're creating controversial content, which has been interesting for me because my stuff that goes amongst viral is very like, controversial and I'm like, man, like you guys just watch the other stuff is just as good, but it's not so controversial cuz it almost feels like you're trying, I almost feel like I'm trying to get people

Travis Chappell (31m 47s):Pissed off. Yeah, well that's the traditional media defined right out there
Tanner Chidester (31m 51s):Which makes sense why the news does what it does. Absolutely. It gets,

Travis Chappell (31m 54s):It gets this, they have shareholders, right. They need clicks.

Tanner Chidester (31m 57s):Right.

Travis Chappell (31m 57s):But they need stuff that produces negativity. That's how it

Tanner Chidester (31m 59s):Works. Yeah. But I, I think, I think on the other end, it's just you become who you say you are. Right. Like I think for me it was, hey, I wanted to be on Varsity's or so a sophomore on varsity, I did it then I wanna play D one football, then I wanna start a bisous then, you know, I didn't finish engineering, but I would've, and I had a three nine and I remember I would go into classes, oh, you're a football player, you won't make it like, like they actually thought I was in the wrong class. Like, you know, you're

Travis Chappell (32m 24s):Not allowed to have

Tanner Chidester (32m 25s):Muscles. Yeah. And so, yeah. So I think, I think it's just as you continue to do what you say you will do, that's where the confidence comes from in terms of other people, what they think. To be honest, it really bothered me at first, but after you've run millions and millions of dollars of ads, you just don't care. And so, to be frank, like you just realize that you're in your own little world and you think everyone's thinking about you.

Travis Chappell (32m 47s):Yeah. But
Tanner Chidester (32m 48s):People just don't really give a shit. Yeah. And they have their own problems. And so yeah, I'll go places and people will recognize me like, oh Tanner, like, especially gyms, like a lot because I've worked with so many trainers and stuff, but I just think over time you just realize you don't get too high, don't get too low. Yeah. Right. Like people tell you you're the shit, you're probably not. And then when people tell you you're the worst, you're probably not. And so,

Travis Chappell (33m 7s):Yeah.

Tanner Chidester (33m 7s):Yeah. I, I don't know. I just, I just think for me it was just, it's part-time then it's part just becoming who you say you are and then just trying to treat people better. You know. So if you come off in a negative light, just take feedback and try to do better. But I, I try, I try to do my best. Right.

Travis Chappell (33m 22s):Yeah, totally. It's, it's really easy to be in that tribe of like, you know, fuck the haters. But also it's like, I don't want to on purpose give people room to speak negatively about who I am and what I'm trying to accomplish in the world. Like, I still wanna be mindful of how my, or like what people perceive me or who people perceive me to be. And I want to work on that as much as I can. You know, at the end of the day, you're never gonna please anybody or never gonna please everybody. So it doesn't, it's never going to, you're never gonna get a hundred percent. But to me it's like you can't just have this, you know, overarching paint mentality of like, fuck anybody who doesn't agree with me because I'm right and prove me wrong type of a thing.

Travis Chappell (34m 6s):It just, it feels like, it feels like you're just like looking for fights, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like you're just looking to pick fights with people. Yeah. And that's where I stop vibing with it. But at the same time, it is none of my business, other people think about me and which is, and it's also allowed me to have a little more empathy for people that I maybe didn't like at first when I first got into their brain or something. And, and I was just kind of like, why did I feel that way? Like what inside of me immediately judged that person. And it's usually because they're good at something I'm not good at or they have something that I don't have. Like, if I dig deep enough into why I don't like them, it's probably because there's a piece of them that reflects something that I don't like about myself. Right. So like I try to keep that in mind, you know, so it's, it's difficult to, to kind of tow the line

Tanner Chidester (34m 51s):Sometimes. I find that the guys I don't like, people will say, they've said that in the past. They say because you're like though. Yeah. And I, and it, it really would piss me off. I'm like, I don't like him. Yeah. But I think, I think that's just, it's weird but I think sometimes as human beings we do that where we see a fault in someone and it's this fault that we don't like about ourselves. Yeah. And we see you're like, I would never do that. And I've, I've done that before a hundred percent. But there's also, what's the saying? They say in your twenties you think everyone's thinking, or like in your twenties you care what everyone thinks in your forties, I don't remember what it is, but in your forties you stop caring so much and then you're, when you're 70, you're like, you realize they weren't talking about you at all. Yeah. Right, right. Something, it's, it's something along those lines.

Tanner Chidester (35m 32s):But I think that's true too because as you get older, at least me at least now that I'm in my thirties, I really, I don't know, in your twenties, it, it doesn't hit as hard cuz you're pretty, you're young and I'm still young, but I just think, I'm like, man, dude, in the next nine years, half my life or more will be over. And that's a crazy thought to think about. And so it just doesn't make sense to just worry about what people say or think about you all the time. Yeah. You really just need to focus on what is you want to do and do your best and then let the chips fall where

Travis Chappell (35m 59s):They fall. You always try to look at just who is somebody's inner circle and what did they have to say about them is typically a better


Tanner Chidester (36m 5s):Tell to me that actually is Oh

Travis Chappell (36m 7s):Yeah. Look at their content, listen to their podcast. Yes. Some of that's helpful, but at the end of the day, I still don't know them as a person. Yeah. If we're not homies or we haven't hung out or smoked a cigar together or something. So like I go to who are the people that are closest to them in their life? How long have they been around? What do they have to say about them? And do they stick around? And like, if those are all good and on the up and up, then I'm like, yeah, probably a pretty good person. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like maybe we disagree on some things, but that doesn't mean they're bad. You know, we just, we've gotten to this, this, this space in life where if people disagree, you know, everybody just goes


Tanner Chidester (36m 42s):Like, oh, I hate, well I hate it. Well,
Travis Chappell (36m 45s):You're just dumb or you're a moron. It's

Tanner Chidester (36m 47s):Like, wait, what? You know, I res I, it's not, I respect the people who stick by their guns. So, you know, people like Andrew Tate, right. He's the most well-known that people don't understand, but I don't agree with everything he says. But what I love, and I've always respected this in anyone I've met, is when they just like, they, they're, they believe it. Yeah. They're like, this is how I think. And I'm not changing for anyone and there's just, there's some respect there that I have. Because at times it, there's a lot of pressure to change. There's a lot of pressure too, especially now, especially Oh yeah. Especially, I mean, I can't even imagine if I was an actor because even actors, they're paid. Right. Athletes, you're, you're, you're an employee. Right. You're not really your boss, you're an employee. I mean, just having to watch everything I say or, or how I say it, because I could get canceled or fired or something.

Tanner Chidester (37m 32s):So I respect, I respect, you know, like for example, what he's going through right now, I kind of like, he's, he's kind of caused some of it Yeah. Himself. And I, I guess I kind of respect him. Like it is what it is. I mean, the guy believes what he says and he kind of lives it. So I do respect those people. I don't know if you feel that way, but I definitely do.

Travis Chappell (37m 48s):No, that's, that's more or less have, you know, we've done a couple, you know, take videos or whatever on it. Yeah. And yeah, that's more or less where I am with him and, and or really any of those types of controversial people, whether it's left or the right, to me it's very, it's very similar. It's like right if, if you're somebody who, who does what you say you're gonna do and you're somebody that doesn't back down from your beliefs just because some people that don't know you at all are pressuring you to do so. Right. And the people in your life are your people and they stick close to you no matter what, you know, then like, I don't know, like I, I gotta meet you to have another opinion about it, to meet, you know what I'm saying? Like, I can't have this big of an opinion or this much hate for somebody based on just some stuff that's anecdotal or like a news headline or something like that.


Travis Chappell (38m 37s):Unless it's egregious. Right. Unless it's like we can all agree there's a base level of like, hey, you're not allowed in society anymore. Guy, like, sorry, Bill Cosby. You know what I mean? Like, it's time, it's time to put away the reruns of the Cosby Show. Like, we're good, we're good on this one. Case closed. You know what I mean? But like, you know, and I guess, I guess we'll see what happens with tape, but I don't seem like anything that they have stuck with him. So like Yeah, we'll if there's nothing indicative or nothing that he's found guilty of and it's kind of like the next step for me to have any sort of, another opinion about him is to actually hang out with the guy. Yeah. Because you just, you can't make, you can't form opinions on sound bites, you

Tanner Chidester (39m 16s):Know? I agree. I agree. And I think, yeah, I think it's a mistake most people make and I, I think it helps though when you're judged, I think being absolutely building a business helps because you automatically get judged. And so when you get unfairly judged, it helps you see the other side and go immediately and you don't And you don't want to. Yeah. You don't want to do it to someone else at all. Right.
Travis Chappell (39m 36s):Yeah, no, it definitely feels unfair when you're in those situations. For

Tanner Chidester (39m 40s):Sure. Especially. Yeah. And they don't, or they don't have contacts or they heard from this per, you know, it's like the telephone game, this person, this person, this person, I'm like, dude, that's like my all, who
Travis Chappell (39m 49s):Told you? Yeah. Where did you even get that
Tanner Chidester (39m 51s):From?

Travis Chappell (39m 52s):So where do you think the online marketing game is headed as a whole? Like, you know, there's been, I feel like these kind of transitions that have happened from when it started back in, you know, early two thousands. Yeah. Where it was just email was everything and you had like 70% open rates and then it just kind of transitioned to, oh, now we have Facebook ads. And then it was like iOS 14 dropped a grenade on everybody running, running traffic and tracking was all messed up. And then it just switched to, oh, it's high ticket time because you know, you can recoup ad costs or do you think, where do you think we're headed in the next like three to five years? Where are some of the trends you're seeing?

Tanner Chidester (40m 26s):Well, I don't know if you noticed this in your business, but we had, we had times where low ticket would work better and then high ticket would work better. And so sometimes we go back and forth, you know, so just obviously the front end generation, like going straight to it. At least in my opinion, what I'm seeing right now, it just seems like there's a lot of lack of trust. Like the trust is at all low, lack of trust is at all-time high. And I think unfortunately that's just how it works is, you know, this game started back in the early two thousands before I even can remember. And you know, a lot of the OGs are like, oh man, we were running, this is a wild west. We were just doing all this stuff. And then the Google slap came and then this stuff, you know, I started around 2017, it felt less competitive.

Tanner Chidester (41m 6s):It felt like less people were there. I really felt kind of that two year head start people talk about in business. Oh I really felt like I destroyed that. Like I felt like I got in and I had that two year head start before, you know, people started copying and seeing what you're doing. But I just feel, at least overall over the five years I've seen, that right now trust is at an all-time low. So to combat that, I think people either are gonna have to do more, you know, kind of bizo offers. And Bizo to me is how to make an extra 300 bucks, you know, doing nothing. Right. Because that's what most people want. Or there's just gotta be more tangible stuff involved because at least like Mastermind offers, they're losing their, in my opinion, where people are. Yeah, I've heard this before. I did a couple masterminds, it was bs, et cetera.

Tanner Chidester (41m 47s):Yeah. So adding in something a little tangible where, hey will help run your ass, or you will do all your copy, or we'll give you a couple sets or whatever. That's why you're seeing that offer right now. Sure. I mean, I've seen that offer

Travis Chappell (41m 57s):A dozen times
Tanner Chidester (41m 58s):In the last, so at least in this space, that's what I've seen. Obviously it can depend on the offer in the industry, but it just seems like trust is a lot lower across the board. Hmm. And so there's just, it's taking a lot more effort to get people to come in versus maybe a couple years ago. That's what I'm saying.

Travis Chappell (42m 14s):So if you're starting a business coaching business from scratch right now, what are the first steps you're taking? Like kind of thinking about it in terms of offer, price, point,
Tanner Chidester (42m 22s):Range. Yeah. I mean,

Travis Chappell (42m 23s):Lead gen.

Tanner Chidester (42m 24s):Yeah. Well, I mean, I would do a lot of the same stuff. Like if I, if I lost everything today and I had to go back and redo it, I would do a lot of the same stuff. Because when you don't have money, your options are limited. Yeah. And I just started reaching out to people and I was DMing, I don't know, hundreds a day. And I would get, you know, 30% would respond. I'd book a bunch of calls, I'd close them. I think like

Travis Chappell (42m 42s):It's just random dms on Facebook

Tanner Chidester (42m 44s):Or mostly Instagram. Instagram you can do either. But I really liked Instagram. I just feel Facebook, you know, people kind of see it coming more like Instagram, they don't have like groups. So to find people, I don't think people get it as much when you go on Facebook groups, you know, it's like, oh, there's all the hell on the list and everyone's doing it. Yeah. So I think it's a lot less effective, but I would, I would start doing that in turn. I, I think the biggest thing I would focus on though, is the offer and what I've seen from different friends and people I've spoken to, the craziest offer I've seen that is in internet marketing space, where they're doing, they're doing over eight a month and I can't say who it is and all that stuff, so I'm not going to, but the offer is very bis apy, right? It's very like for the average person, which means they can push the ads really far, it can go super wide.

Tanner Chidester (43m 27s):The fulfillment is pretty easy, which is right. Again, it's like, and their promise is low. That's the other thing. It's like a lower promise. Because, you know, even me, like people who wanna work with us and start a business, I can't be like, Hey, how to make an extra, you know, 5,000 a month. Like, they're like, I don't give a shit. Right? So that's why it's almost like these promises get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. But if you can actually go to some and say, Hey, like, we'll help you make an extra $400 a month. Hmm. Not only is it more believable, but it's easier to fulfill. Right. Yeah. And then you can go broader to those types of people. So, I didn't like that, that's what I would do on a strategic level. Okay. Differently in terms of like, I can break down stuff if you want. I don't know if the viewers or listeners will want that, but I mean, it really, I just DM people.

Tanner Chidester (44m 9s):I didn't wanna call, so I closed them. Yeah. And what you say and how you say it would probably be two or three podcasts, but the actual, like strategy, it's fairly simple because it was like door sales. I did door to door and I was like, oh, this is easier. Because I can do more volume than sitting in my bed. Yeah. Yeah. I did. I loved it. Door to door, it was cake.

Travis Chappell (44m 26s):That's a fair point. Yeah, that's a fair point. I did door to door for like five years,

Tanner Chidester (44m 30s):Six years, bro. It'll make four different products. You'll, you'll be a man after door to door is knocked from the fan of heart.

Travis Chappell (44m 36s):Yeah. It, it, it, it certainly puts every other action into perspective. Yeah. Because like now I look at everything I do as like a Yeah. But I could be knocking doors right now, so, and we are in Vegas,

Tanner Chidester (44m 47s):So, and it was just, I mean, did you ever sell security?

Travis Chappell (44m 50s):Yeah, for like a year and a half.
Tanner Chidester (44m 52s):Security to me was so hard cuz you had to get in the house.

Travis Chappell (44m 55s):I did solar, I did alarms, I did water purification and did satellite TV for a little bit. The only major one I didn't do was pester.
Tanner Chidester (45m 6s):Yeah. Pest pests. At least one I've heard is one of the easier ones. Cuz you can stay outside if
Travis Chappell (45m 10s):The volume play, yeah. Your commissions are smaller, but you don't have to get in the house. You can sell on the doorstep. Right. And you can knock out like 12 accounts in a day. Right. Alarms are one of those. It, it was, I tell people like alarms was like the coldest form of sale they ever did because it happened immediately. And you had to gain trust immediately.

Tanner Chidester (45m 27s):You had to get in the house with

Travis Chappell (45m 28s):Solar water purification. We'd set up an appointment and come back, you know, cuz we gotta do, we gotta look at your roof, we gotta check this out. We gotta get these CADs designed. We got, you know, we got, we got shit to do when we're coming back with an alarm. Yeah. You're just like, knock, knock, can I come in? Like, and then an hour later you're signing a contract and then before you're leaving the house, like you're high fiving the installer on the way out. You're throwing that shit in before they're heading. It's

Tanner Chidester (45m 51s):The pillow. I, I actually, when I did alarms, I don't know what your strategy was, but I actually did, it was a slight, it was, it was a little bit of a bait and switch where I like, we would put signs in the yard and I'd be like, oh yeah. Like did you know having this sign, like lower crime range, the marketing? Yeah. Yeah. And I'd be like, yeah. So the marketing pitch, yeah. So what I'll do is like, I just need to get your info real quick. Just let me sit down. And then once I was in, I'm like, cool, got your info and then I'll kind of transition and it actually worked pretty well.

Travis Chappell (46m 15s):What was your, again, the door line was that just let me sit down

Tanner Chidester (46m 19s):And it kind of was, yeah, because basically, basically I'd go up and I say, Hey, you know, it's really sorry to bother you. We're just going around the area because there's, you know, been more crime on TV lately in the area and they're, you know, I'm like doing all the visual signs, like, yeah. And so I say, so look, sorry I'm not here to bother you. We're just putting some signs on the yard. They're completely free. The FBI says it's, you know, 60% less likely to get broken into, which is true. And then, and I say, would you be open on getting a sign? As soon as they're like, yes Mike. Cool. I just need to get a quick inflow. Can I sit down real quick? I would just start walking. Like, I'm just going right in the door. Yes. And you know, the first few times it was rough, but after you did it for a couple months, I mean, it was just so natural.
Travis Chappell (46m 54s):It's confidence, you know? Yeah. It just felt, don't say no.

Tanner Chidester (46m 56s):Yeah. It just felt natural. But the crazy thing to me was just fighting. You had two types of people: you'd either go to very poor areas where there's a lot of crime, but they didn't have a lot of money or you go to very fluent areas where they had a ton of money, but there wasn't a lot of crime. And man, I would be back and forth on who I wanted to talk to that day because these people like to give you a drink of water, they let you in the house, but they're like, yeah.

Travis Chappell (47m 17s):Like I don't care. They're sophisticated buyers.

Tanner Chidester (47m 19s):They're not following from both of them, and then here it was almost easier to convince them. But then, you know. Yeah. But I don't pass the credit though. Yeah. They're like, yeah, but I, I don't, I don't want this. That's the A five 16. Yeah. I don't wanna give up my cigarettes. I, I'm like, bro, come on. But it was a great learning experience because everything after that was super easy.

Travis Chappell (47m 38s):The best neighborhoods we picked were always, it was the worst possible neighborhood that we would get, that we could find that would still pass credit. That was always like, that was always searching for is like, where's like the worst neighborhoods where it's not so bad that nobody in there has a decent credit score. And then we go pick the ones with manicured lawns and be like, that one probably has a, like a better credit

Tanner Chidester (47m 58s):Score. I have one day where I almost cussed out my manager, I ran 28 credits and I think 26 failed. And I'm like, bro, I the whole day and like, and you're getting in the house. So I'm like, bro, I didn't,

Travis Chappell (48m 12s):You're doing the hard work.

Tanner Chidester (48m 13s):You Yeah. There's no, what can, I can't do anything. Yeah. No one they can't even buy. Right. And so I would just get in the house and after a while I was just like, yeah. And then they didn't know why my mood changed. I'm like, cuz you're a freaking E

Travis Chappell (48m 23s):Credit. Yeah, yeah.

Tanner Chidester (48m 25s):E you know, and for everyone listening, there's A through F and you can only sell usually C like A, B or C. So

Travis Chappell (48m 31s):Yeah, when you call in they're like, yeah, this is a D, there's the F and it's like, ah, dammit all the hard work. I just pitched 'em, I got 'em, say yes, now I'm on the phone.

Tanner Chidester (48m 39s):Yeah. Yeah. I would try. And that was something that you learned too, though, trying to get that info quick. Yeah. You know, I get, oh yeah, let, just verify real quick cuz I ended up wasting all the time sometimes where you'd go through a whole pitch like you just said. Yeah, don't even buy.

Travis Chappell (48m 51s):Yeah. The line that I would use at the door to get in was, do you want me to take my shoes off because Oh nice. However you answer, I'm coming inside. Right.

Tanner Chidester (48m 60s):They're like, no. Oh. They're like, no. Like,

Travis Chappell (49m 1s):Okay, yeah, no, yes. Don't take the shoes off. And I walk in. Yes. Okay. I take my shoes off and I walk in. You know what I mean? Actually

Tanner Chidester (49m 7s):Love that. That's actually piece,
Travis Chappell (49m 8s):Yeah, we, that was the, that was the line bro. That was the line we used to use. We would go to crime neighborhoods that like recently had a break-in and we'd like show them on the like, yeah, this house right here just got broken into, we're here, we have this like, you know, this, this grand local company put together where we give you, you know, equipment. So we'd like, I'd show 'em a little bit at the door and then be like, I just need two quick seconds to kind of walk you through the rest of the house, see how it works. So I'm gonna take my shoes off and then boom in the house.

Tanner Chidester (49m 32s):Did you, when you first started, shock you at how some of the homes looked?

Travis Chappell (49m 37s):Yeah,

Tanner Chidester (49m 38s):I remember the first time I got dropped off, I had no idea what I got into. I, I couldn't, I didn't realize people lived in these homes. Like it actually, I actually sat there and went, man, people live in these things because these homes, they must've cost less than like, I'm talking less than 50.

Travis Chappell (49m 53s):Like, you dropped me off in Haiti, like where

Tanner Chidester (49m 55s):Are we right now? Like at le. Yeah. And so I, and I remember hearing gunshots and stuff and then two months in I'm like, cops will come up, dude. Do you know, do you know where you are? I'm like, oh, I know exactly where I am. I'm meant to be here. You know, it, it just actually

Travis Chappell (50m 7s):Researched this place. You

Tanner Chidester (50m 8s):It was so scary the first day I did it, I remember feeling that way and then, you know, it gets, yeah. You know, it's your normal environment, you get used to it. But I remember the first time I got dropped off I was scared. Shit.

Travis Chappell (50m 19s):Did you? Of course. I grew up in Lancaster. Okay. California, which is like, it's like northern LA County. Yeah. Where, where basically when they flushed the prisons and incentivized them to go somewhere, they say, Hey, go to Lancaster, Palmdale. Cuz it's still in LA County. Yeah. But it's significantly cheaper than la. Right. So that's where like commuters live and where people that can't afford to live in LA live. Right, right. When they get kicked outta the prison. So that was kind of where I grew up. So I was pretty used to those types of neighborhoods. Okay. But what shocked me was just that the stuff worked, you know, cuz it was my first introduction to sales doing door to door. I was just like, I, when I would get into people's houses, at first it was like, you just let me into your home.

Travis Chappell (50m 59s):Like I'm just a dude that just knocked. Yeah.

Tanner Chidester (51m 1s):Well, and, and into your

Travis Chappell (51m 2s):Psychology is strong. You know, I

Tanner Chidester (51m 4s):Think to your point though is also the sophistication. Right? So the more sophisticated or more fluent the area, it would get tougher because for sure they're like bro, hey, hey we can use this alarm for this. He's like, yeah I can literally call him on, on the cell number. It's fine man. Yeah. So I think to your point, it was kind of the same thing where usually the lower income areas were, it was kind of easier to convince them Yep. Versus the more affluent areas. And you know, I found that all this off

Travis Chappell (51m 29s):For sure. It was counterintuitive cuz like your brain goes, well we gotta go find the people with money. And it's like, well we don't make money on money, we make money on financing. Yeah. So like we go find the people that want to pay monthly payments. Yeah. You know, which is what makes solar such a powerful game. And I, dude, I still kick myself in the ass for not seeing the opportunity in front of me. Cuz I was knocking solar back in like 2012, which yeah, nobody was doing it back then. There were like two, three players in the game. This is before Vivnt did. So I actually, I think Vivnt was making the transition into solar at the time from just doing alarms. But I just, I, I was a college kid. I was going to school for ministry actually, and thought that's what I was gonna do with the rest of my life. So I was just like, oh, this is extra money. Cool. And then when I, when I figured out I wasn't going into ministry, I was still selling solar.

Travis Chappell (52m 10s):I switched to alarms because at the time the industry was so young and ripe that they were paying just crap commissions compared to what they get paid now. So I would get paid like a thousand, 1200 bucks on a deal selling solar on a six week, eight week install time with 50% commission, 50% commission. I was like, oh, I can throw an alarm, make 800 bucks, install tonight and be paid next week. Like that seems like a way better deal. Right. But I just didn't realize what was in front of me. I did not, I did not understand the nature of the solar game at all. Cuz if I did, I would've been like, holy shit, I can knock a door and make $8,000 on a solar deal. Like, cuz these people were there for an hour. Yeah.

Tanner Chidester (52m 48s):Just longer. Just the only thing with it is just the longer sales cycle.

Travis Chappell (52m 51s):Longer sales cycle, longer sales cycle. It's like real estate. It's just a real estate sales cycle. But now, even now, like a lot of municipalities and local governments are all about solar. So they help you in terms of the process. Like it's true. It's faster. You get paid eight times more money than I got paid Yeah. At the time. But I still kick myself for that too. Cause I was like, oh, I could have made so much money in solar had I just even like, thought about something besides my stupid commission check, you know? Yeah. But, well anyway, dude, I know we're coming close on time. I, I wanna chat a little bit more about your life philosophy now. Sounds like we have similar upbringings in terms of I grew up also extremely religious. I went to bible college, I thought that was what I was gonna be doing. It sounds like you grew up religious, kind of moved away from it, went a little bit back, back and forth and stuff.

Travis Chappell (53m 33s):Yeah. Without getting too far into it, if you don't want to, what's your kind of philosophy or take on, you know, why are we even here to begin with and you know what all this is for?

Tanner Chidester (53m 43s):Yeah. So when I hit my first million dollar a month, that was when I was really going through this because that had been my goal since I started business. And when I hit that, I just felt that was the apex of business, right. I was like a million a month. Right. And so I started going to like a lot of therapy and I started talking to people. And again, this is just me, so not to offend anyone, but I really, you know, I, I just felt a lot of times when I'd ask people I wasn't really getting answers and, and maybe the problem was I was hoping they would answer for me. But I think reality is that, you know, there is no like answer per se. There's no one out there to tell you with a hundred percent certainty what is true and what isn't true.

Tanner Chidester (54m 24s):So for me, the NIS approach has been a little bit more helpful. You know, it's, it's a balance because basically NIS say, you know, nothing matters, so it doesn't really matter what we do. And I agree to that to a certain point at the same time, you know, it can get pretty, it can go pretty far, right? Sure. Then your family doesn't matter and then this person doesn't matter. Right. So I just think for me, what's been the most helpful is, I'll be honest, like I don't, I don't necessarily know, I do think, at least in my opinion, I think it's a little crazy to think that, you know, all this just happened from a big bang theory that I don't know if I really roll with that. I think someone created this. But in terms of answering deeper questions, I've stopped for now because it almost frustrated me where Yeah.

Tanner Chidester (55m 7s):You know, where people would say, Hey, I'm not happy. And Annis would say, well why does that matter? And I actually like that question better versus you're creating this deficit and if you don't feel a certain way, then you're constantly trying to like, what's the problem? What's the problem? Sure. And so whether there's a problem or not doesn't really matter to me. The thing that I think is most helpful is like, Hey, I don't feel good today. And instead of pondering and pondering and pondering trying to figure out, I'm just like, Hey, I don't feel good today. It's all good. This is life. It's up and down. You'll feel better tomorrow. And then just move with my day. That has been more helpful for me personally. I know not everyone, but for me that's more helpful than sitting and trying to figure every little thing out because sometimes I just don't know if there's, I just dunno if there's an answer for everything.

Travis Chappell (55m 48s):Yes, no, I agree. I tend to agree with that almost completely there. There's just not much yet. You don't have control over everything. And I think happiness is ultimately, it's a fleeting feeling that exists. It's an, it's an a it's an emotion that we feel and there's just a zero way to have complete control over your emotions all the time. That's why we're emotions. We're, we're, we're meant to experience them all on a spectrum at any given time. So to think that you're only going to experience happiness and then when you don't fault yourself for not experiencing happiness and start tearing yourself down and you get just this spiraling mode of beating yourself up, which isn't gonna make you happy anyway.

Travis Chappell (56m 28s):Just like me, I just think that there, there's more worthy things to pursue than happiness itself. And I would say meaning is one of them, meaning is a more worthy pursuit than happiness. Which I think there's, there's some evidence for, and then I was listening to this, forget his name, he was the founder or the father of positive psychology. He was saying that mattering is even more important than meaning than, than meaning is because mattering can actually measure up to something like you, you matter to like the people around you to relationships, to, you know, an organization functioning like mattering is even more important than meaning. So I kind of built that hierarchy in my mind a little bit ago, which has been somewhat helpful for me as I try to work through them and like you said, deal with changing emotions on a daily basis.

Travis Chappell (57m 13s):You know, I got two small kids, my wife works, I have a couple businesses, like things are hectic right now. It's, it's a strange time, you know, so it's been helpful for me in just like, kind of the way that Hermo puts in his book about her market is greater than offer is greater than persuasion ability. In my head now I kind of have it as that, as like mattering is greater than, meaning is greater than happiness. And I think that that's a, a better, a better frame to view it in because I have more control over whether I matter or not. Because it becomes a game of like, how do I become a more valuable human being and I have more control over whether or not I'm a valuable human being because I can work on my skill set, I can work on my connections, I can, I can, there's things that I can add to that rather than there's just like arbitrary moving target of like throwing a dart at a constantly moving dartboard and hoping you hit something and calling it happiness, you know?

Tanner Chidester (58m 5s):Yeah. I think there's also just power in, you know, deciding when people say, well what matters. I think just deciding what matters to you. Yeah. Because it is interesting just hearing, as you start looking down the path of this type of stuff, people say, well, you know, this ruler, you know, 3000 years ago had 800 wives and, you know, ruled from here to here and, and you don't know who he is. And that, that actually was probably what really scared me when I hit the billion dollar month because I remember I was looking out over Miami and I'm in this ridiculously sick penthouse and the view is ridiculous. And I'm just thinking, man, like Mark Zuckerberg has done this and you know, Bill Gates has done this and Elon's done this and you know, still in the grand scheme, it's like in the world they're small.

Tanner Chidester (58m 52s):Yeah. And that, I think that thought was so deflating for me because I go, man, if they're small, then obviously am I, yeah. Who am I? And so I think it's just really figuring out what brings you happiness and fulfillment and what kind of gives you that room to live. Yeah. And then you just attack it and, and you know, deep down, hey, it doesn't really matter but it matters to me. Hmm. And that has been a more helpful thought than, you know, trying to go through life. Like, Hey, if I do this, it's gonna matter. Like even charity work, it's been hard for me sometimes cause I go man, like I'm only helping these few

Travis Chappell (59m 23s):Kids. Yeah, yeah.

Tanner Chidester (59m 24s):And when they die, there's gonna be more of these kids and it's like, it never ends and sometimes it just feels a little, it feels a little hopeless if you go down that hole. And so I think the way you stay out of it is you just go look, you know, a lot of what you do probably won't have the significant like, impact in the grand scheme of the world or whatever, but if it matters to you and it matters like to those kids, then it is important. Hmm. So I wish there's a better answer, but I'll be honest with you, it's, it's, it's a whole, it's a thing that, it was hard for me for a long time.

Travis Chappell (59m 54s):Well closing this up dude, one last question for you. I'd like to throw this in the works sometimes with people. If you could create a video that you knew was gonna go viral and everybody in the world would see the message in the video, what message would you want in that viral

Tanner Chidester (1h 0m 9s):Video? I just want to be kind. It's, it's kind of sad to me that the reason I'm successful is cuz people are mean to me. Hmm. And I'm grateful in hindsight, right? Like it's, it's the way of the world. But man, I was like a nice kid, you know, and I, I remember my parents just raised me really well and just be respectful and nice to people and that was very hard for me as a child to just have people be mean to me and I didn't even know why. Yeah. And everyone's going through their own battles. Everyone's going through their own battles. And sometimes I've actually found out after the fact that maybe I wasn't very nice to someone or I said something, you know, maybe I was a little rough when I said it, you know, just whatever.


Tanner Chidester (1h 0m 51s):And then I find out they're going through something really terrible and I just think if everyone could just be kind and, like , try to help each other, it's kind of that message Gary V sends. Yeah. It's a good message. It's a good message because we're all going through stuff and social media exacerbates it. I think I'm really glad it came about cuz it's how I've built my whole life. But before social media, if people were on social media, I don't think you have as many problems as you do now. You know, you only married Sally or Jill down the street. You didn't have 800 million girls on Instagram you could choose from. You didn't have people saying mean stuff to you. You didn't have this kind of keeping up with the Joneses as much as you did. And so all that can kind of make someone already feel like they're not good enough.

Tanner Chidester (1h 1m 32s):And then you exacerbate that with people being mean to you. It's like just being nice. And so that would be the message, you know? That would be the message. Love

Travis Chappell (1h 1m 40s):It, dude. Hey, thanks for coming on man. I know we talked about a lot of different stuff, but I appreciate you taking the time, to get you out to the next spot

Tanner Chidester (1h 1m 46s):Where, yeah, thanks for having me, man. Yeah. Thank you. Pleasure. Thanks so much, all,  brother.